Dear AP students:
Have any of you seen the movie version of The Catcher in
the Rye? Of course you haven't!!! That was a trick question.
There has yet to be a movie version of the book. The author J.D. Salinger
refused to sell the movie rights. I guess he thought Hollywood would ruin
it. And we can suspect from the novel that Salinger didn't think much
about Hollywood. The fact that there is no movie only adds to the mystique of
the book. Will a movie ever be made? Maybe. J.D. Salinger
died a few years ago, and who knows what his official will said about movie
rights. Perhaps his son will want to make a movie--after all, he works
(ironically) in Hollywood as an actor/producer. I don't know who would
play Holden Caulfield. Who do you think would make a good Holden
Caulfield? Maybe in today's Hollywood Holden Caulfield would be a
misunderstood vampire or werewolf or a Superhero???!! Or a wizard?
Have you noticed that Holden Caulfield's
older brother is living in Hollywood as a screen writer. And that Holden
refers to him as a phoney? A sell out?
But what are we to make of that scene on page
104--right after he gets beat up by the elevator operator-pimp? In that
scene Holden consoles himself by pretending how he would act if he was shot in
the gut...he'd act like some tough guy gangster from the movies. He says
he'd seek revenge by shooting the pimp, disposing of the gun, and then calling
Jane Gallagher to come over and take care of him. He then comments..."The goddam
movies...They can ruin you..."
My question is ...why does he console himself by
pretending to act like a tough guy character from a movie? Is he saying
something about himself, or about our culture/society? And why would he call
over Jane? Why not some other girl? Why not the porstitute? What's
so significant about Jane?
Different subject, but maybe related to the
above...on page 98 Holden recalls the time he stopped his brother from going
with him to shoot BB guns. He told his brother he was just a a
child. He says that just one day he refused to take him along. What
is the significance of this passage? Go back and re-read it.
Analyze...anlayze...analyze.
Keep analyzing. Keep re-reading.
When he reflected upon this anecdote on page 99, Holden addressed his actions with a slight sense of guilt. It is very ironic because he even states that he too was just a kid after all. Im guessing that this passage reveals that Holden is aware that he was being ironic at the time, and possibly feels guilty for leaving his brother out. Possibly this is a source of his depression, the fact that he himself cannot stay true to what he says, and the fact that he blindly called his brother out as a child before he died. Jane is significant because in a way, she is the image of child-like innocence to Holden. Holden sees every other girl with disgust and utmost disrespect, but maybe its because they are adults and much older than him. By acting like a tough guy, he says something about himself and society. The idea is that movies can make you see yourself as someone you are not, because Holden clearly does not see himself as a tough guy, let alone an adult.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden consoles himself by acting like a tough guy, because he is still a child. Based on previous posts, we all know that Holden sways from immaturity and childishness to complete maturity, or so he claims. Holden is still learning how to deal with decisions and events because he is still growing. I think he consoles himself by acting like a tough character, because in real life, he knows that he is incapable of actually physically standing up for himself. In chapter 6 page 46, he even claims, "I'm not too tough. I'm a pacifist, if you want to know the truth.". In addition, Holden pretends to act like a tough guy, because thats his childish imagination coming into play. By refrencing this type of movie, it also says something about the society he is living in. Based on what I have analyzed, this is the figure of an ideal man at the time. He describes a charcter that is independent, strong, and perseverant; in essence, a survivor. What was seen in the movies, portrayed someone that is rare to find, but someone people, even today, strive to immitate. Our society is blinded by the glamour of what is presented in movies, that sometimes we forget that they are almost impossible to copy in real life. Just as William wrote, movies make you see yourself as someone you are not. I think thats why Holden says, "The goddamn movies. They can ruin you" (Salinger 104), because it turns people into "phonies" and are "phony".
ReplyDeleteAs for Jane, he sees her as someone pure. He sees Jane as a person who is not corrupted by society and who actually cares for him. In his memory of their days together, he admits that they shared an innocent yet happy and enjoyable time. Holden does not want to call a different girl, because he knows that they would not care for him, as much as Jane would care for him.
I agree with William that Holden felt guilty about leaving his brother out. During that time, he felt mature and tried doing the best for Allie. I think that Holden thought that shooting BB guns would ruin Allie's innocence and childhood. Holden feels guilty because that could have been a time to be with his brother. I am still trying to figure out the significance of this passage and I would appreciate it if anyone else can confirm my idea or reveal something else about the passage. I am interested in what you guys have to say about this anecdote.
-Daphne Tortoles
I agree with you on your statement that Holden consoles himself by acting like a tough guy but I feel differently when you said it was because he is still a child. While it is true that Holden is immature at times, I don't think that was reason why he started acting like a tough guy after being beat. In that scene, I believe that Holden wanted to escape the cruel reality that he was a part of. The real world in Holden's eyes was unfair and very lonely. So he fabricated his own reality of taking vengeance on the elevator pimp and removing his sense of loneliness by having the company of Jane Gallagher, one of the few people that he can completely open up to.
DeleteRegarding the scene with shooting BB guns, I believe it ties in to his moments of vulnerability. He hired a prostitute in the previous chapter but he didn't feel like having sex, maybe even scared of doing so, and so he just told a bunch of lies so that he can be left alone. Allie is similar to Jane in my description above, he is a person who Holden genuinely looks up to. So when he is in times of distress, he looks back and reminisces on experiences with Allie.
-Josef Urrete
In my opinion, I believe that chapter 14 shows many different sides of Holden Caulfield. He begins this chapter by reminiscing about his dead brother Allie. I agree with both William and Daphne that Holden felt guilty and was upset about the way he treated Allie. However in Holden's mindset, he did believe that he was only trying to protect his brother. Throughout this novel, he constantly refers to being depressed. I truly believe that Holden's thoughts and negativity/immaturity as a teenager lead him to how his mental well being is. Later on in the chapter, Holden gets into an argument and physical fight with the elevator operator-pimp. He always seems to act tough and continues to show that rebellious teenager image however it is very clear that Holden is terrified. He states, "What for? I said. God, my old heart was damn near beating me out of the room" (Chapter 14 Page 101). Holden was not afraid to say what he believed and let his anger get to him that he began to speak before his actions. He continued to insult and scream at the elevator pimp which lead to him getting beat up.
ReplyDeleteJane seemed to be one of the most important figures in Holden's life. Out of all the females, he significantly continues to speak and only want Jane. I agree with Daphne that Jane was a pure female who is not corrupted and is one of the few that actually cares for Holden. Throughout the novel, Holden shows no respect and disguist for every female besides Jane. He did not want the prostitute because he already felt uncomfortable by the way she acted when he first met her. In addition, she caused an argument between the pimp and Holden because the prostitute was upset she did not get more money from Holden. To conclude, Jane is a caring and happy girl that brings the good in Holden.
-Camryn Ferrer
Concerning the passage on page 98, I agree with my peers in that Holden was trying to protect Allie at the time. This is supported by the theme of the book in which Holden views himself as the catcher in the rye. As established by previous blog posts, it is evident that Holden believes the world is a cynical place and that with maturity comes corruption and a lost of innocence. Holden did not permit Allie to hang out with him while he was playing with BB guns because it connoted a form of violence. As Holden believed he was the catcher in the rye, he resolved to protect his brother from losing his innocence. However, ever since Allie’s passing, Holden felt guilty for not allowing Allie to go with him. This is a result of the grief and regret that forms when a loved one passes away.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daphne in regards to the scene where Holden gets beat up by the elevator-pimp in chapter 14. I believe Holden acts like a tough guy from the movies because society tends to present key figures that people ought to follow. However, Holden claims that the movies can “ruin you” because he acknowledges the previous point in that the movies tend to encourage people to be someone they’re not, thus resulting in an act of being a “phony.” He decides to call Jane because he sees her as a form of innocence. He believes again that the majority of the adults in the world are phonies as their maturity has corrupted their child-like innocence. He resolves to contact Jane because he believes that her innocence is still existent. He did not want to call the prostitute because she represented another one of the individual’s that just wanted something from Holden. Holden desired genuine companionship, which is why he resolved to call Jane and later Phoebe. In contrast to the prostitute Sunny, both Jane and Phoebe were known to have a better relationship with Holden, as they reciprocated his kindness with other acts of compassion, whereas Sunny’s “relationship” with Holden was just one-way.
-Abigail Zaratan
To begin, this passage (pg 104) reminds me of a scene out of an old school Mob film, which I found very ironic as Holden mentions in chapter 1 that he hates Hollywood and films for their phoniness. I agree with William’s idea on the quote "The goddam movies...They can ruin you…” that movies can make you someone who you are not. Since many great films came out in the 40’s/50’s, crowds of people must have spent a lot of time watching these movies and possibly getting emotionally invested into them. Additionally, Salinger may be trying to hint that many people spent too time much watching movies and not enough time living life or improving themselves.
ReplyDeleteJane is a character that never came face to face with Holden in the novel yet she played such an important role in Holden’s life. I believe that Jane symbolizes the last of Holden’s childhood and innocence. At the beginning of the novel, Holden shares of a lot of memories he had with Jane when they were children, like playing checkers or holding hands. I believe that Holden chooses not to call the prostitute because he has more memories with Jane and knows they don’t share the same bond.
-Jassin Reyes
After carefully reading the scene where Holden gets beat up by Maurice the pimp over not paying the proper amount of money, I found that Holden is a character that is not very much in touch with reality. He pretends he’s in a movie scene to momentarily escape from the truth about his current situation. Holden feels lonely emotionally isolated from everybody else in the novel. In fact, many of his closest companions are not physically present in the novel. Allie Caulfield, Holden’s beloved younger brother, passed away years ago. Moreover, Holden hasn’t been able to contact and meet up with Jane Gallagher, who has only been mentioned anecdotally. Finally, Phoebe Caulfield has yet to be seen in person at this point in the novel. Overall, Holden is in an emotional wreck, and the only way he has to cope is to pretend that he is a tough movie character that would’ve dealt with Maurice’s attack by capping him with an automatic. As to Holden thinking about Jane during this scene, I agree with my peers that Jane was one of the few people that Holden was truly emotionally invested in. Perhaps in Holden’s mind, she symbolizes innocence in an immoral society.
ReplyDelete-Brenden Gregorio
I agree with Brenden in that Holden does act like a tough guy to get his mind off the reality that he is physically weak. I also believe that the "tough guy" mentality is just expected in our society. In America's culture, men are supposed to be macho and it's even exaggerated in Hollywood movies, which is what Holden mentioned. Men that aren't the typical macho man, are depicted as weak. Holden wants to show he is, but knows he isn't. He even mentions that he wouldn't fight someone if they stole his gloves.
DeleteThe reason for calling Jane is because she is his strength, maybe even his soft spot too. I liked the way Brenden described her as innocence because it makes sense. Most people have soft spots for the young innocent people in the world, like children. I can connect that too the reasoning behind stopping his brother Allie from going to shoot BB guns. He didn't want his little brother to grow up so quick. Didn't want to expose him to the standards of a "macho man". Therefore, he told him to stay because he wanted to keep Allie's innocence. He wanted him to remain a child. Now Holden can relate because the world of adults, as he knows it, is full of "phonies" and he yearns to be an innocent child once again.
I Also agree with brenden's statement. Throughout the novel, Holden is constantly trying to be someone that he really isn't. He tries to act tough when challenged by the pimp and his roommate but only succeeds in letting himself get beat up. Holden pretends that he is some "suave" guy around all the ladies, but he drives away or loses all the female characters he tries to date. With him constantly calling people "phonies" or fakes, it leads to the overall irony that he is a phony himself. For this reason is why he picks on himself at times and makes fun of things he tries to do right. Hollywood is a place where people act roles for movies such as cowboys, astronauts, skilled detective ect. because people are able to give the impression that they are the role, holden feels both anger and jealousy that he cannot do the same in reality. His habit of lying to people shows that he tries to convince people that he is something else, but when he sees people who are more wealthy, intelligent, or better off than him that is when he calls them a phony. perhaps calling people "phonies" is Holden's way of making him feel better about himself and his current state.
Delete-Michael Llanos
After reading chapter 18 you can get some insight on why Holden Caulfield viewed his brother D.B. as a phony when he becomes a screenwriter in Hollywood. In a scene in this chapter Holden shares an observation he made as he was watching a movie. Holden points out the irony that the woman who was crying throughout the whole picture would not let her own child go to the bathroom. " You take somebody that cries their goddam eyes out over phony stuff in the movies, and nine times out of ten they're mean bastards at heart"(chapter 18, page 140). Holden probably assumed that Hollywood screen writers attempt to make people care about the characters in the film rather than the children next to them. This could be one of the reasons why Holden views screen writers such as D.B. as a phony.
ReplyDeleteAnother possibility is that D.B. was a World War II veteran and had a negative experience of the war and of the Army, "...but I really think he hated the Army worse than the war...he wouldn't've known which direction to shoot in. He said the Army was practically as full of bastards as the Nazis were." Then Holden discussed how D.B. made him read A Farewell to Arms, which Holden describes as a "phony book". Holden found it odd that D.B. could hate the war so much and still like that book with its phoniness and all.
-Alan Contreras
After re-reading the scene on page 104, I have concluded that Holden is obsessed a lot more with fiction than he is with reality. He copes with his anger and pain by dwelling in his fictional world, instead of doing so in the regular boring world of reality. When holden states, "The Goddam movies. They can ruin you. I'm not kidding.", he recognizes the impact movies have on people. Holden tends to use his imagination and lie compulsively, and he realizes that the movies are a lot like that. Holden does this, just like the movies, to make the boring world around more interesting. I find this ironic because Holden makes remarks about how much he hates the movies and Hollywood. I agree with my peers that Holden calls over Jane because she is one of the few people he actually cares about in the story. In a time of great distress, even in his fictional world, he wants the company of someone he's emotionally attached to. On page 99, when Holden reminisces about Allie, I agree with my peers that he felt guilty for not taking his brother along. Although he used to take Allie everywhere, the one time he didn't is making him feel depressed. Along with my peers, I agree that by Holden preventing Allie to go and shoot BB guns, Holden was trying to protect his little brother's innocence and purity as a child.
ReplyDelete-Justin Bleisch
After rereading some chapters I've discovered that as early as chapter 12, Holden has expressed his dislike for his brothers partake in Hollywood movies. While in New York at a night club Holden was approached by one of D.B's old girlfriends, Lilian Simmons, who thought his success in Hollywood was great. Holden obviously thought differently, "You could tell she thought it was a big deal, his being in Hollywood. Almost everybody does. Mostly people who've never read any of his stories. It drives me crazy, though"(ch.12). One of Caufields biggest fears is adulthood and becoming phony, and for his brother to produce movies with adult content filled with actors or "phonies" is disappointing. Holden also mentions that prior to Hollywood D.B wrote quality stories that Holden enjoyed very much. To see his brother make that transition, only made him feel like he sold out. This is why he praised his younger sister so much because she is so beautiful and smart and innocent unlike D.B.
ReplyDeleteIt is almost as if the sense that Hollywood is the compete opposite from innocence. As stated previously we know that innocence is a reoccurring theme in this novel, which is why it seems contradictory when he pictures himself with a battle wound and calling Jane Gallagher to come to aid him. This is an important aspect due to the fact that Holden seems to be clinging to the innocence he has, even when Sunny the prostitute came over he just wanted to talk because as he didn't "feel very much like myself tonight."(107) This just proves him trying to keep the little innocence he has still.
ReplyDelete-Barbara Ramirez
I agree that Holden wants to stay somewhat innocent, but at the same time I believe he is already grown up. I think the scene where Holden gets beat up demonstrates why Holden refuses to associate himself with others. He isolates himself to protect himself at times. I think that Holden's method of consoling himself is meant to be all sorts of fiction so that he can escape and distract from his reality. I believe Holden does not think of himself as very strong nor does he have enough confidence to truly stand up for himself. Holden asks for Jane and I think that has to do with the fact that he holds onto the innocence they shared, that though they hardly necked, what they had was real. Holden's description of Jane's neckrub and how she could hold his hand better than anyone else proves that the innocence they had and how much he cherished that above all.
Delete-Isabella Wolf
I believe that Holden consoling himself by pretending to act like a tough character in the movie says something about himself as well as society in general. As my peers have said, Holden is actually the opposite of a tough guy and does not have the actual maturity or strength to physically stand up for himself which leads him to be beaten up by Maurice the pimp. Daphne practically took the words out of my mouth when she talked about how Holden wanted to see himself as tough guy in the movies because in the 1950s and even now, that is what as seen as the ideal man. Being strong and independent and well, a true "manly man" is what many try to emulate. I believe that Holden said he would call Jane to help him and not another woman or Sunny the prostitute is because Jane is someone he still sees as pure and someone he truly cares about. Holden actually values and appreciates Jane as the person she is and not just as a sexual object as his former roommate Stradlater did which is why Holden was very uncomfortable with the idea of Jane and Stradlater going on a date together earlier on in the book.
ReplyDeleteAs for the scene in page 98 where Holden tells his late brother Allie that he cannot play with BB guns represents a memory of guilt as my peers have said. Although he mentioned that Allie did not get mad when his brother told him he could not go, he still feels bad that he did not include him. Feelings of regret is often common when someone loses a loved one because they wish they had cherished every moment they had with that person when they were still alive. This is why I think Holden has flashbacks of this certain memory quite often and why remembering this makes him go into a state of depression.
-Atheana Lopez
After reading what my peers mentioned above, I feel that I agree with everyone's opinions. Holden dismisses his brother as a phony because he feels that his sibling fell into the ugly society trap: being in Hollywood for work. He most likely thought D.B. was similar to him after discovering D.B.'s opinion on the war, but was proved wrong with the decision D.B. made when he moved to Hollywood.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I had a completely different view of the quote "The goddamn movies... They can ruin you...". I thought that Holden's little scene was a metaphor for the fact that the lives and people we see on shows and movies are ideal characters and lifestyles that some of us strive to portray daily. When Holden says that this ruins you, I concluded that he meant this urge to be like the people we see on T.V. takes away our personal creativity and ability to encrypt our own ways of thought into our lives. I appreciated Holden's statement because I found it to be very relatable to society today. In this scene, he pretends to be shot in the gut and have Jane come over and help him. He envisions himself as an actor in a movie while he incorporates the whole scenario into his personal life, and I saw this as a reflection of how our generation today seems to copy off of the lifestyles portrayed on movies and T.V. shows.
Our narrator's flashbacks of his brother Allie and the BB gun incident demonstrate to the readers that Holden is still in a state of shock and depression, as Atheana mentioned. He feels a sense of guilt for not allowing his brother to participate in the activity that he wanted to do, hoping that there was a chance he would turn out to be more similar to Holden himself. But because Allie has passed away, we cannot ever be sure that he would not have found a great job in Hollywood like D.B., or became the top student at a school like Pencey.
Overall, Holden is not the tough guy that we often think he may be. He holds very strong opinions about society around him, and makes good points about the movies in relation to the real world.
-Negin Mohtashemian
As we all know, Holden is not so "hot" about movies, however previous to the event of the pimp in the elevator Holden did say, "I hate the movies like poison but I get a bang out of imitating them." Holden pretending to be shot in the stomach reflects something about Holden and that is that he is trying to hold back the reality of possibly not having any where to go, or going home to his upset family. Though Holden may be pretending to be wounded physically, Holden is wounded emotionally.
ReplyDeleteIn the anecdote that Holden recalls about Allie, DB, and himself, considering he told the story after Allie's death, Holden feels a sense of guilt by not allowing Allie to go shoot BB guns with DB and Holden. Through my perspective I wouldn't like to blame Holden for his decision because I can relate to Holden. I believe Holden's thinking of not letting Allie shoot BB guns was a sign of Holden trying to protect Allie. As my fellow peers have said that a sense of regret sets in when one passes away because they wished they could have enjoyed every single moment possible with that person.
By looking at Holden's mental state he's not the tough he wishes he could be. He even says it himself. In events when his roommate in Pencey get into a fight, Holden did have the guts to punch anyone or with the Pimp in the elevator Holden mentions even killing the pimp. Yet again he mentions that the movies can ruin you.
-Jose Delgado (Tony)
I also agree with Daphne and William in that Holden reflects on his anecdote by regretting not involving his brother in shooting the BB guns, but I do also believe that he was trying to do the right thing for his brother and making sure he would not get hurt. Although in this anecdote he beings to regret and the reason I believe he begins to regret, to bring up Daphne's point, would because it would ruin Allie's purity as a child, his innocence. Also to bring up Jane I believe he views Jane in the same why he views Allie. That they are both pure and that are not corrupted by society. They remain untouched by all that is changing in society in his mind. I personally feel as though he feels thing strong connection with Jane because of his loss of Allie and how much Jane in a way relates them both. For example when Holden gets beat up by the "elevator operator" he brings up Jane in saying that he would want her to take care of him, therefore he feels as though she cares for him. She (and Allie) are the ones that he can always count on in his opinion. I also agree to the fact that the reason Holden acts like a tough guy is because he does it to console himself because he himself is still a child, and knows he has not way of being able to speak up and take care of himself.
ReplyDeleteHolden portrays himself as this macho gangster man because although he did claim he is weak and a pacifist, I am very sure it was the perception of the perfect man during that time. It is the fifties- post World War II - and the men who served and continued acting like a tough guy was the right way to act as a man in society. Holden just takes a character from a movie because Holden portrays him as the best fit to be a man in society. Although he is affiliated with a gang, Holden's teenage mind views him as something greater than that. However, that's how most teenagers are: we look into someone in a book or a movie and view them as this model that we ourselves have to achieve in order to feel accepted by society. But then again, we tend to forget that the person is almost impossible to achieve because they were created to be amazing for that book or movie. We cannot imitate them as much as we want to because that is not who we are. So in Holden's case, he understands his immaturity and that is why he aspires (in that moment) to be like this man from the movies: to perhaps feel accepted because he remarks how he is feeling depressed but not knowing why. Maybe this could have been the reason.
ReplyDeleteNow Holden refers Jane frequently because of how much happiness she brought into his life. Although they had an innocent relationship, Holden was not looking for sex with her. Sure he attempted to do something with her and failed, but he was still happy and appreciative to be around her. Maybe it is too much to state, but Holden may have been in love with this girl. I understand he is a teenager and seems too young for something like love, but he constantly brings her up because he always is thinking about how she is doing. If you have thoughts about a certain person, then they must mean something more than as a friend to you. He also felt this happiness from his brother Allie, but in the sense of a brotherly relationship. Holden appreciated the sense of innocence Allie carried and that is why he did not want to bring him to shoot BB guns. Although Holden did feel regret, he wanted to preserve the innocence of Allie, not deteriorate it. Perhaps he hoped for Allie not to lose his innocence like how Holden is slowly losing his.
-Brandon Sanchez
The passage on page 98 in which Holden reflected to the time when he stopped his little brother Allie from shooting BB guns with him shows the guilt and regret that he holds from it. I believe that this passage is significant as Holden was not aware that Allie would pass away, meaning that if Holden knew, he would have allowed Allie to play with him so that Holden could cherish every single moment he has with his little brother. I also agree with William that the passage was also ironic as both Allie and Holden were both children at that time. To touch on the topic of when Holden got beat up by the elevator pimp, I agree with some of the comments made above that he pretends to be a tough guy and play out a Hollywood movie scene as Holden still sometimes resorts to his immature ways at times. Although Holden does express his hatred towards Hollywood movies, such as talking negatively upon his brother D.B's success in the industry, we can infer that it impacted him as Holden stated, "The goddamn movies. They can ruin you" (Salinger 104.) This also proves how Hollywood has an affect on society as some of its scenarios are impractical, and the immaturity of Holden allowed him to enact the situation as the "tough guy." As for Jane, Holden would call her instead of any other girl because as stated by my peers, Jane is a symbol of innocence to Holden as she treated him with respect and they both had enjoyable times together. I also concur with Daphne that Jane was not corrupted by society and she would be the only one that would actually care for Holden.
ReplyDelete-Brian Arlantico
Referring to the passage in chapter 14 regarding Allie and the BB guns, it is obvious that Caulfield has a sense of regret when thinking about the subject. The reason he refused to take Allie was because he thought he was too young and immature. However, I agree with William in saying during that time Caulfield was a child and now looking back on it acknowledges his childlike nature. Therefore his refusal to take Allie with him is a painful reminder that he should have brought Allie with him in order to spend more time with him before his passing away.
ReplyDeleteMoving onto the next scene in which Caulfield pretends to act like a movie character, he is definitely saying something about himself. Throughout the novel Caulfield expresses his distaste of Hollywood movies by talking negatively of the shows or the actors within. As many of my peers have stated, this shows Caulfield's immaturity and this immaturity is what allows him to play out this made up scenario. Regarding the reason as to why he would call Jane instead of any other girl, we see that out of many of the girls that have been introduced by Caulfield, the one who seems to be mentioned the most is Jane. The reason for this is because, as my peers above identified, she has not been tainted by their society. Therefore she would be the most logical choice, because most of the other women mentioned, aside from the nuns, are in Caulfield's opinion phonies.
-Angel Cortez
I agree with many of my peers in how this is all a huge symbol of innocence. Holden, while he may not admit it, treasures innocence. He protects Allie from BB guns, stating that he is merely a child, and keeps him away from dangerous things. He shows brotherly care in his own way by keeping him away from bad sources that could dirty his innocence. Holden seems to treasure Jane base on his memories with her and that's mainly because of their innocence at that time. They shared enjoyable moments and had a lot of fun while staying pure in the midst of it all. He treasures those times of innocence which he shared with others.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, this is what he dislikes about Hollywood. He sees Hollywood as a bunch of phonies that lack innocence because they make people act like people they aren't. He points out that he cares little about most movies and says he has a hard time enjoying them because of the actors. This is most likely because of their way of giving up innocence in how they conform to the ways of Hollywood and their roles.
-Andrew Son
I agree with my peers that Holden consoling himself by acting like he has been shot shows his immaturity. Holden is constantly swaying between mature and immature, which translates to his constant back and forth between childhood and adulthood. Pretending to be in a movie, although he has clearly stated his distaste for movies and Hollywood in general, portrays his immature and childlike side. Also, the reason that Holden chooses Jane of all girls to take care of him is because she is important to and valued by him. In agreement with previous responses, I believe that Jane is so appreciated by Holden because she is pure and untouched by phony society.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the passage about Holden not allowing Allie to play with BB guns, I believe that Holden was being a protective older brother who didn't want his little brother to play with dangerous things and risk getting hurt. I agree that this could be viewed as Holden treasuring innocence and not wanting to taint his little brother's innocence by allowing him to play with dangerous things.
-Megan Vu
The fact that a movie for The Catcher in the Rye has not been made after more than fifty years is astonishing. If a movie for the novel were to be made today, I believe that it will not be as successful as the book. One of them main problems with creating a movie adaptation of the book is the point of view in which the movie tells the story of Holden Caulfield. Throughout the entire book, Holden is expressing his vulgar and critical thoughts to readers in the first person. Without it, the book loses its charm and memorability. With a movie, it is a strange concept that most of the movie would be a narration of the Holden’s thoughts rather than him telling the audience himself. Another struggle with making a movie of the book is that Holden continuously strays from the story he tries to tell and instead discusses an irrelevant topic that readers would not have thought of otherwise. It is a difficult task for filmmakers to achieve this effect.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that Hollywood is very relevant in Holden’s life despite the fact that he himself despises movies. One specific example was in chapter 14 after he was beat up by Maurice, the elevator pimp. He acted as if he were recently shot, describing as imagining “coming out of the goddam bathroom, dressed and all, with my automatic in my pocket” (page 136). Later, Holden claims that movies can “ruin you.” Holden’s opinions on Hollywood are directly related to his opinions on his older brother D.B. being in Hollywood. He refers to D.B. as being a “phony” because movies, according to Holden, promote a false sense of reality that is unachievable. It would also explain why Holden first thought of calling Jane. She is the last form of innocence that Holden knows of in a society where there are many corrupted individuals. He was in dire need of someone he could trust and Jane was that person.
On the topic of innocence, in the beginning of chapter 14, Holden recalls a memory with Allie where he stopped him from joining in his friend’s shenanigans. His reasoning was because Allie was still a child at the time. Holden was worried that his brother would lose his innocence it he were shooting BB guns since it had correlations with violence. Ever since his death, Holden regrets not allowing him to join and, as a result, occasionally repeats what he would tell Allie if he allowed his brother to join him.
-Kelvin Alvero
In regards to Holden's humorous response to his unfortunate altercation with Maurice, the elevator attendant/pimp, it seems as though he is reflecting upon the culture of the time period in that it would be easier to recover from such an experience in a fictional manner such as that of the cinema industry. I think this is one of the most significant contributing factors to the protagonist's disapproval of Hollywood as it leads the populous to think more idealistically as opposed to rationally. This in turn, in the main character's mind, causes people to behave differently than they ordinarily would in an effort to mimic popular films and subsequently forfeit their sincerity. However, because of his fervent belief in independent thought and individuality, Holden Caulfield refuses to become a part of the "false" mass media, but does consider the benefits from time to time of conducting himself in such an uncharacteristic manner. Similarly, there is a recurring urge within the protagonist to contact Jane Gallagher following the discovery that she is romantically involved with Stradlater, which is only emphasized during times of hardship. Due to his inability to confront his affection for Jane, there is a constant need to fantasize about what his life could and would be like should he choose to face his emotions and deal with his problems. Nonetheless, Holden's repeated projection of his innermost feelings on others through criticism, I believe, functions as a coping mechanism meant to justify why he is unable to tell Jane how he truly feels anywhere other than his own mind. Additionally, there is a possibility that he feels he himself has been corrupted slightly by the current American culture and now seeks some form of penance from the only person besides his younger sister Phoebe whom he believes to be pure and innocent, which would explain his peculiar fantasy at the hotel in chapter 14.
ReplyDeleteA comparable event was also mentioned in chapter on pages 129 and 130 when Holden refused to allow his younger brother Allie to join he and his friends in shooting their BB guns because he was too young. In this instance, a common theme in American culture is brought up in that there is a certain age for almost everything regarding maturity level and the time at which it is achieved. It is very likely that the main character saw his younger sibling as unprepared to handle such a dangerous toy due to his age and chose to not allow violence in this case to corrupt his immature persona, now regretting not having taken every possible opportunity to spend with someone whom he loved and would soon be gone forever.
-Quentin Cruz-Boyer
Holden's attitude towards Hollywood appears to be greatly influenced by the author himself, J.D Salinger. Knowing that Salinger did not give the movie rights to anyone in Hollywood can be compared to Holden's opinion towards Hollywood as well. Holden states Hollywood "ruins you" and perhaps J.D Salinger felt this way too. I believe J.D Salinger shared the same opinion as Holden and thought by giving producers the movie rights it might have devalued the book by changing too many things that it no longer shared its authenticity. On page 164 Holden began questioning D.B on his works and Annapolis stating "What's that got to do with the kind of stories he writes? I said. Boy, that stuff drives me crazy. That goddam Hollywood". Here Holden seems upset at D.B and believes him being in Hollywood is changing the way D.B writes practically "ruining" D.B along with his work ethic. Hollywood is renowned for its exaggeration and changes and therefore Holden exaggerates the scenario with Maurice into a portrayal of a live action movie scene, which can be seen as a bit childish but, who doesn't picture themselves in a movie sometimes? If Salinger's son were to give the movie rights it can be most certain the movie will not portray every little detail that the book has, it is bound to have changes and could consequently change the meaning of the book.
ReplyDelete-Mariana Velasco
I agree with most of my peers, Hollywood is viewed differently and more negatively based on this novel. I agree with Mariana about how she mentioned Salinger rejected giving the movie rights of this novel because it would "devalue the book by changing too many things that it no longer share its authenticity." Many Hollywood movie nowadays do not follow the books precisely, sometimes changing the ending or small details of the plot. I believe Salinger did not want movie producers to "ruin" the book's genuine message.
ReplyDeleteGiven that Holden is an immature teenage boy who struggles between growing up and being childish, I believe that he consoles himself as a tough character from a movie because of what society and culture teach. Typically, the men in Hollywood movies are categorized and touch and rugged. Society teaches men to be tough and strong, which is known to be stereotypical. Whenever Holden is described in a fight, Salinger portrays Holden as strong. Holden is willing to follow the image of men in Hollywood movies for his own benefits. This demonstrates Holden's endurance of physical and emotional pain that has led him to be in a depressive state.
Jane is a significant character in the novel. Although she does not appear physically in the novel, she is repeatedly mentioned by Holden. Jane is highly admired and appreciated by Holden because she was one of the few women he truly respected and loved. Jane contrasts many of the women whom Holden encounters in the novel.
-Micah Rodriguez
In regards to the scene after Holden is beaten up by the elevator operator-pimp, Holden envisions himself being actually shot in the gut. In his efforts to console himself, Holden carries a fantasy of what he wishes would happen in taking his revenge towards Old Maurice. As Mr. Rodriguez has mentioned Holden states, "The goddam movies. They can ruin you. I'm not kidding." (Salinger 116) Despite Holden's fantasy as a method of consoling himself, it does not change the fact that it did not happen and that it was not real. The way Holden pictured the situation is exactly the kind of thing one would see in a movie: the hero getting the bad guy and winning the girl. This is in relation to why Holden refers to his brother D.B. as a phony in that, movies have the power to make people believe in things, and Holden's brother is all a part of it. While some movies are based off real events, they are elevated for the purpose of entertainment. In the same way that movies are meant to entertain its audience, Holden used his movie fantasy to appease his own mind about what was actually happening to him. Holden describes D.B. as living in this fantasy life in Hollywood. In Holden's mention of D.B.'s lifestyle, I believe that Holden is suggesting that D.B. has no sense of what the real world is actually like.
ReplyDeleteAs in numerous times during the novel, Holden mentions Jane and chooses to envision her as the "dream girl" in his movie fantasy. Holden never actually encounters Jane in the novel, but the thought of her still remains in his mind throughout. In Holden's memories of Jane he remembers her as someone pure and innocent, and he intends to keep the vision of her solid in his mind. As many of my peers have mentioned, Holden enjoys this idea of innocence, and in a way, Jane is the epitome of that for him. Even in situations such as this, where he is beaten, Holden seems to find solace in the thought of Jane and the hope that there is still innocence out there somewhere. I agree with Daphne's interpretation primarily in that, Holden feels that he had a genuine connection with Jane. In a previous blogpost, it has been acknowledged at the fact that Holden enjoys only intellectual, real conversations. It is almost as if he is only able to find this peace when he thinks of Jane.
Similar to the way that Holden is protective of Phoebe, Holden was also protective of Allie before his death. As many of my peers have already mentioned, the reason behind Holden's refusal to allow Allie to play with the BB guns lay on his felt obligation to salvage Allie's innocence. While Holden refuses to let his siblings do the things that he has done, I feel that it is only natural. Any older sibling would want their younger sibling to learn from their mistakes and to not be exactly like them. I have mentioned earlier that Holden carries a weakness and soft spot for his family. Despite Holden's intentions to protect Allie's innocence, there is a part of Holden that reflects on that day as a moment he regrets. I could only compare this instance to a later scene in the novel where Holden is infuriated at seeing the words "Fuck you" on the walls of Phoebe's school. Holden realizes that this exposure to profanity and adult things are inevitably anywhere, and in the simplest of a actions such as playing with a BB guns, one's innocence can be altered.
-Allison Baciles
The Catcher in the Rye would pose a very difficult challenge to movie directors if one were to ever attempt a film adaptation. In an earlier blog post, Mr. Rodriguez points out the point of view that the narrative is told from. The first-person story telling is very important as it creates a sense of intimacy between the narrator and the reader. The entire novel is told almost entirely through Holden's inner monologue, with all of his criticisms and tangents. The best way to translate these thought process, and essentially the character himself, would be to have the lead actor voice over the entire movie. However, as Kelvin points out, this breaks one of the biggest rules in film making: show, don't tell. Movies capitalize on their ability to provide the audience with visuals instead of audio for story telling. To have narrator voice over the movie seems rather ridiculous because you might as well listen to an audiobook; Holden doesn't stop talking in his head throughout the entire novel unless he's talking out loud. The other option for creating a film adaptation would be to have no narrator at all, however there's a bigger problem with this version. Almost all of Holden's personality is revealed to us through his inner thoughts. If we didn't have access to his constant internal monologue, all we would have to go off of would be the sparse conversations he has with other people. However, Holden even internally comments on the conversations as well, always repeating phrases like "I hate that word" and "That killed me". The only way for us to gauge his sincerity during conversations is his inner voice. After all, he's rather fond of lying.
ReplyDeleteHolden's own view of movies is made very clear from the beginning of the book. He has strong opinions towards actors for being "phony" and he can't seem to stand any degree of phoniness. His hatred of facades likely stems from his inherent disposition towards innocence. Holden hates things that are fake because fake things are basically lies, and dishonesty is a clear corruption of innocence. To Holden, actors are just people being paid to lie in front of cameras.
-Zade Younis
When I started reading Catcher in the Rye I honestly thought that there was a movie adaptation for the book since most novels are eventually adapted into films. Since Holden's personality is scattered around the place I think that creating movie in his first person point of view would be quite interesting because of his whole life as a rebellious teenager. However, filming a movie for Catcher in the Rye would still be difficult since Holden tends to swift away from the audience as he struggles to speak his mind thoroughly. In that case Zade made it clear that the main character speaking in his first person point of view throughout a movie would be funny to watch. Therefore, through an actual audio it would be easier for readers to follow along with Holden's tone.
ReplyDeleteHolden points out at the beginning of the book that he has strong negativity towards Hollywood and the concept about movies. In fact it is true that many Hollywood films contain sexual and profanity that may not be suitable for early teens and people would have to be mature enough to handle them. Holden may not be able to be mature enough to handle movies since he makes it clear in Chapter 1 that he does not want anyone to mention about movies to him. At the start of chapter 14, I agree with all of my other peers that Holden's mind is still full of innocence because as he pictures himself in a movie, he would not let Allie use BB guns because he deeply cares for him and was told that Allie was a child. He describes the movie as a phony setting constantly. As Holden gets shot by a gun six times he imagines Jane saving him from his bloody wounds and puts her in the position as a pure and caring person who would also be there for him. At the end, Holden felt embarrassed about his wounds and gory feeling coming out externally. He definitely hates the fact that this type of gory scene would be acted out in front of the audience.
I believe he consoles himself by pretending he is tough because it makes him feel better about the situation he is in and by pretending he is in a movie it helps him still live in his fantasy world. Again this make it seem like it's him against the world. I also agree with what my peers had previously said that he feels guilty for the way he treated his now dead brother, Allie. Which just adds to his depression. When Holden gets into the physical fight with the pimp it shows that he is a rebellious teenager because he had the chance to prevent the fight but he wanted to see like he was a big tough guy when in reality he was scared out of his mind. However, before this altercation he was not afraid to state what he was feeling and thinking and that is what caused him to have an altercation with the pimp. He would call over Jane because he has her on a pedestal and she is the most important girl in his life and the girl he truly wants and also, as I previously said she holds his innocence and he truly wants someone who cares for him and that girl is Jane for him.
ReplyDelete-Briana Rios
In my opinion, Holden consoles himself by pretending to act like a tough guy when he was beat up by the elevator operator-pimp because he does not want to admit that he is terrified as stated by my peers. He does not want to admit it because in the movies, there are actors who act and talk tough when they encounter with people who are threatening them. Holden says, “The goddamn movies…They can ruin you…” He is stating here that the movies he saw in the theater ruined him in this particular situation. The movies that Holden saw in the theater encourages people to be someone who they are not, which is presented in the scene where Holden got beat up. Also Holden contradicts himself when he acts like a tough guy in the movie because he has stated before that the actors in movies are complete phonies and calls his brother a phony as well, which makes Holden himself a phony. He looks down on phonies yet he is a phony. Holden is a walking contradiction.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden would call Jane over anyone else because Jane seems to be the only person in his life to truly understand Holden as a person and have an intellectual conversation that satisfies Holden. I also agree with William when he states that, “Jane is the image of child-like innocence to Holden”. Holden and Jane were close friends when they were younger and Holden likes to hold on to the past. He does not want to call any other women because he does not have any significant bond with any of them besides Jane.
-Mikayla Abille
Like my peers, I agree that Hollywood is described heavily with negative connotation, rather than the popular opinion that it is a dazzling and marvelous city. I think Holden's dislike for Hollywood comes from the fact that movies are often exaggerations of events, thus becoming phony. They also lead people to believe in certain ideas. In most movies of this era, men were portrayed as tough and masculine, while women were delicate and in need of saving. In Holden's mind, he is being tough in his attempts to fight off a mortal, albeit fake, bullet wound.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Holden says that he never talks to Jane because he "isn't in the mood," perhaps it is because he's too shy to do so. And shyness is not a typical characteristic of a typical tough guy. Holden also sees Jane as this perfect girl and seems to be the leading lady to his movie. There is something pure about Jane that makes her different from the other girls that Holden interacts with. He knows the little things about Jane, such as her strategy when playing checkers, and his overall attitude towards Jane seems different in comparison to Holden's view of the other women in the novel. He seems more positive when talking about Jane. To Holden, she is kind and genuine, which is why he is outraged at the idea of Stradlater taking advantage of her. In the movie in Holden's head, Jane is supposed to be his.
Someone capable of portraying Holden well would be a fresh new teenage face who was not one to be called the sociable type. It should be someone who has yet to find their place in the world. The actor must capture the pessimistic and skeptical view of Holden Caulfield. Also, the person must have an adventurous side, willing to explore things so that scenes featuring Holden drinking, smoking, and giving girls "the eye."
ReplyDeleteHolden pretends to do be shot in order to escape the bleak reality he observes. There are times in the novel Holden seems to be bored always finding himself having nothing to do whole he waits for the person he is about to meet. He also pretends to be in a cinematic scene sinew it attracts much attention of people. Holden feels depresses by his loneliness and uses this pretending as a way of getting an imaginary audience. He also he pretends to be shot as a justification to shoot the elevator worker.
After closely analyzing the scene on page 104, I share the same opinion with my fellow peers that Caulfield envisions himself taking a bullet like a "tough guy" and seeking revenge on the elevator pimp, to console and cope with reality and with what actually happened. I can certainly say for myself that I've pretended to be in a movie and fantasized about being a heroic figure by doing things I know couldn’t be possible, just like Holden. By using his imagination to escape from the truth, he is able to satisfy and ease himself. Holden then realizes how foolish he is acting and makes the statement that, “The goddam movies… They can ruin you…” which is why I think he hates Hollywood so much. Jane is also mentioned in this scene when Caulfield says that he would call her to come over and take care of him. This reminds me of films in which the protagonist has a girl whom they care about and end up falling in love with. I believe Holden wishes he could have a similar thing happen to him since Jane seems to be a girl he is mad about.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mr. Rodriguez’s question about Holden stopping his brother Allie from going to shoot BB guns with him and his friend, I think he feels sad and regrets not letting his brother tag along. However, I believe the reason Holden said no at the time was because he was just trying to protect Allie by being a responsible older brother, and not introducing Allie to violence. Holden comments that this was the one time he didn’t take Allie with him, and since Allie has died, it makes him depressed.
-Shalin Nirmal
In my opinion I believe that Holden choose Jane over any other woman because she was a part of his childhood. He sees her as a someone kind, innocent, and loving similar to how he views children. I think he was so upset when Stradlater took her on a date because the thought of him "giving her the time in the back of Ed Bany's godamn car" and that meant that Jane would loose her innocence and was growing up. I also believe that the reason he always says he "isn't in the mood" to calling Jane is because he is afraid that he knows she can't be as perfect as he wants her to be. With Sally it is different because even though he is physically attracted to her he does not feel he could have that connection with her like he used to have with Jane.
ReplyDeleteBut still Holden seems to have a respect and admiration for Sally as he does with all women. When he describes women he says, "Women kill me. They really do. I don't mean I'm oversexed or anything like that - although I am quite sexy. I just liked them, I mean."(P.61) He desperately seems to want to have a girlfriend because he pays for a prostitute and even dances with those girls at the bar that he did not seem interested in at all. It is obvious though that like everything else he is afraid because being in a relationship and having sex is a step of growing up into adulthood.
J.D. Salinger was a reclusive person to the public; a man who sought solitude. From this it is clear that he would not want all of the fame and fortune that would come from a Hollywood movie. Holden viewed Hollywood and movies as acts of phoniness because they were acting to be something they were not; they were not genuine. In addition, I do not think a Hollywood movie would have payed justice to the complex novel as the audience would not be exposed to Holden’s unique perspective and reasoning.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the scene on page 104, Holden pretended to act like a tough guy from a movie after being punched by Maurice. During Chapter 13, Holden admits to readers that he is “yellow”; that he only acts tough, but does not follow through with his actions. Holden, who views movies as phoney, is now starring in one. He himself therefore recognizes the influence of the movies on his life which suggests that his imagination combined with his fantasy for lying indicates that acting for Holden may be about making his life seem more interesting than it actually is. As far as his decision to call Jane, I think it is because he idolizes Jane as innocent and authentic, therefore, the only one who could save him from phoniness.
I think JD Salinger not wanting to make the novel a movie can be reflected upon Holden’s dislike of the movies and belief that they are phony. I remember that when Holden first introduced his older brother to us he talked about he wrote a story that he absolutely adored but when he was writing a script, he really didn’t like that. I think the same goes for the author, he believes that literature is great but films would ruin the true nature of the story. I think that Holden refers to his brother as a phony and a sell out because he chose to go to Hollywood instead of sticking to writing. He chose what is more popular and what would make him more money, While Holden might believe that he had more potential with literature. Throughout most of the novel you can see Holden’s dislike for the movies and him constantly claiming that “They kill you”. I see this phrase meaning two things. For one I think he is just referring to people disliking the movies because of their phoniness. On the other hand I think he is referring to how it can affect one sense of fiction and reality. After the movies one might want to image everything in their own way, like Holden himself does on the elevator scene. The movies can ruin ones expectations of reality with fiction. The movies actually “killed” Holden directly with this elevator scene and with Holden wishing that Jane would come to his rescue. Lastly, I believe that the author included this elevator scene to point out the distinct differences between ones reality and imagination and how it can “kill you”. With this I think that JD Salinger chose not to take his novel to cinema because he knew the changes that would be made to his book and that that might change the true significance of his book with unrealistic events like Holden himself thinks about. That’s why I think one can see JD Salinger’s choice not to make the book a movie in the book.
ReplyDelete-Camila Lautz
Along with my peers I believe Holden tries to envision himself as being a tough guy after the brawl that happened between him and the elevator pimp because it helps to him to be able to console with himself on what he wished he would've done in the moment but was unable to fulfill on what he wanted to do because he was actually very terrified. He even states "My voice was shaking like a bastard." (P.102) Although Holden tries to make his fantasy of him being a tough guy to seem real, it did not happen only something like that would happen in a movie. I also believe that's why he doesn't care for movies because they "ruin" you by putting thoughts into your brain of stuff that could possibly happen in real life but actually cant. I also think it makes Holden even more upset when he fantasizes about calling up Jane Gallagher to come take care of him and bandage him up because he knows in reality he's probably shy to talk to her considering he has talk to her since they were children. ALso I would like to agree with Brenda that Holden sees Jane as someone he values verses any other girls of his past because she was part of his childhood and is someone who is still innocent in his eyes and hasn't became someone who is a "phony" to him. Adding too I think that's why he sees Hollywood as a big phony place because they convey these movies and portray these ideas as something that could happen in reality but really they are just a bunch of fantasies that are portrayed by made up characters.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHolden seems to contradict himself throughout several times in the book, including the passage in which he consoles himself by pretending to be a tough guy from a movie. Holden has expressed his hate for the movies many times, which makes it strange for the author to have included this scene, but I believe there is two reasons why Salinger did this. The first reason is simply because Salinger wants to show the reader how much the movies can affects a person, even if they know that the content in the movies is not real it still affects them in some way. The second reason that Holden did this is because of his young age, he is still at that stage of immaturity that makes him act in a childish manner. Also, he says that he would call Jane over because Jane is special to him and he sees her as a superior to other women. He has a deep relationship with her that makes him think of her as the person he wants to call when he needs help. He imagines her with him because in reality, just as he would not actually kill the pimp nor be a tough guy, he would not really call Jane to help him with the situation he is going through, even if he does want to.
ReplyDelete-Cynthia Rosas
After reading I believe that Holden acts like a tough guy because he is still immature and utilized the stereotypical way to portray he is older than he really is, by acting like a tough guy. Due to the fact that Holden is still an adolescent he is learning to make important decisions and become a matured and independent man. I agree with what my peers have to say about Holden’s attitude and tough guy persona. I also agree with the statement that Daphne made saying that “Holden pretends to act like a tough guy, because that’s his childish imagination coming into play.” What Daphne state, I find interesting because most view Holden’s attitude as immature however he is utilizing his characteristics and innocence in the real world to enjoy his time and portray himself as someone who he really is not.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden called over Jane because he is close and familiar with her since he was a young boy. The way I define Jane and Holden’s relationship is the kind of relationship you normally find in movies, where the girl is really pretty and best friends with the boy and with time the boy ends up getting feelings for his best friend however the girl does not see him the same way. Based on the way Holden has described Jane I feel that Holden feels way more than just a friendship with her. Due to the fact that Holden has also known Jane from a very young age I believe that he still affiliates her with the innocent and caring image he remembers years ago. Therefore I believe Holden feels more comfortable telling Jane as oppose to the prostitute or sally.
- Nubia Alvarez
Throughout the story I think that Holden criticized all the groups that he felt envy for, like his brother. He also imagines himself as a character of a movie because of how lonely he feels and how boring his life is at the moment. He is very confused to the point that he does not really know what he likes and what he does not like anymore. Also he wanted to call Jane because she is someone he has know for a long time and someone he really liked, and he needed her as support because he is feeling depressed at that moment.
ReplyDeleteI feel that by having Holden comment on the disgraces of Hollywood, Salinger is referencing the disgraces that Hollywood has had on teens since the time that this novel was published. Especially during the 1950's, movies were a large hype for the general public but in particular for teens. Hollywood movies presented an escape from everyday life and made teens believe that they could be another John Wayne or Elizabeth Taylor. However, Salinger seemingly despises Hollywood for its corruption on the teenage mind - in the way that he excludes Holden's brother in Hollywood, from most of the novel. As mentioned before, Holden is quite the actor himself, not in the real art of portraying a character, but in the sense of acting like something he's not in front of others. This not only gives Holden a bad representation as a fake, but also distinguishes Salinger's issues with the influence Hollywood carries on today's youth. I believe that Salinger is against the way teens envision themselves as characters of movies, rather than living life as purely themselves. Personally, I love the movies and feel that now in the twenty first century, this teenage portrayal is not as heavy of an issue; and if I had to choose, Holden would be played as Tom Hiddleston(aka Loki).
ReplyDelete-Savannah Mojica
J.D Salinger, being the author, would of course add in his own personal views and opinions into his novels. What intrigues me the most is that I see Salinger expressing himself through the use of the character Holden. Just as Holden adores his brother D.B for being a "regular writer" (page 4) but despises him for becoming a screenwriter in Hollywood, is exactly why Salinger refused to sell the movie rights. I believe Salinger(as well as Holden) see's it as movies ruining the beautiful nature and imagination from a written piece.
ReplyDeleteNow onto the scene when Holden gets beat up and pretends to imagine himself as a movie character acting all tough and seeking revenge. In that scene he comments "The goddam movies...they can ruin you" and it shows his clear hatred for them. However, as much as he hates it, he shows to be just as "phony" as the way the characters in movies are portrayed, compared to real life. Just as much as he hates it, Holden acts like he isn't even himself sometimes. He lies to Ernest Morrow's mother about his name, pretending he had the janitors name.He also pretends he is all sorts of ages except his actual age. As for his idea of seeking his revenge and calling up Jane, I believe he picked Jane in this situation because he believe he has this very close relationship with her since he knew her from childhood. However, I think it is more than just that but that he actually has feelings for her but is just too depressed to really want to do anything really. Or at least he likes the idea of it, just like he likes the idea of a lot of things but never really goes through with it.
-Mariah Brown
The reason Holden tries to console himself by imagining himself as a tough guy from a movie is a way to maintain his innocence through a pretty difficult situation. This is Holden’s way of escaping reality by using the movie and it’s normally perfect outcome similar to how other people in society do to avoid difficult situations that they do not want to face. As for why he would call over Jane it is because she to him is still one of the people he finds as innocent and someone that can help keep himself innocent. The reason as for why Holden stops his brother from going to shoot a BB gun is to try and keep his innocence, Holden tries his best to retain his innocence by keeping his brother away from anything that could cause him to grow up.
ReplyDelete- Cristian Hernandez
I agree with my peers that Holden's distaste for movies is influenced by the author J.D. Salinger himself. It is seen throughout the novel that Holden always calls people from Hollywood or any actors phony. He always criticizes actors stating that they try too hard thus making their acting bad and not satisfying to him. Maybe Holden's feelings about Hollywood is Salinger's way of "calling out" Hollywood and showing how he wouldn't work with them. I feel Holden acting as atough guy was his way of expressing his frustration with the situation. Also it is his way to cope with what has happened. About Jane, I believe his situations with her is a representation of a long going crush experienced by teenagers. And the conflict that one faces by being shy or always trying to make a right impression with the crush. It is evident that Holden's feelings for Jane are more positive than his feelings are for Sally. As with Sally he seems to just use and judge her throughout his their whole date.
ReplyDeleteIn about 99% of cases everyone would say in a movie adaptation of a book that "The book was better!" The Catcher in the Rye is no different. While a movie is much better in capturing action or movements, what a book almost always does better is capture the emotions of a character. Holden is a very interesting character in that he's young, immature, and always on the move. Almost something is always on his mind, and a motion picture simply can't express what's going on inside his head. As we all can agree on, Holden in more than one occasion makes many irrational and simply bad decisions, yet Salinger makes quick work to make up and explanation or rational into why such decision was made, another captivating element of The Catcher in the Rye that a movie cannot shed light upon. All the emotion and character of Holden would be lost in the making of a movie, something no actor can replicate on the big screen.
ReplyDeleteIn relation to the novel, as many here have already stated, Holden characterizes in many ways Salinger's view towards the making of The Catcher in the Rye into a movie. As mentioned in the post, Holden seems to view his brother D.B. in a lesser light due to moving to Hollywood and "selling out." As many have come to agree with, The Catcher in the Rye stands as one of the greatest pieces of American literature. Maybe in an act of pressure or the fear that the silver could not capture the greatness of his written novel (which I wholeheartedly agree with), Salinger refused the selling of movie rights.
If I could choose anyone to play Holden Caulfield it would probably be Colton Haynes or maybe Ansel Elgort. A visual representation of The Catcher in the Rye would actually be quite interesting to see Holden Caulfield and what goes on in his mental state.
ReplyDeleteBack to the topic, Holden can be described as hypocritical by taking actions in which he would justify as phony. Take the pretending to be shot after Maurice knocked Holden onto the floor and Holden calling all actors phonies and fake as an example. Salinger was trying to portray our culture and society today I believe because we, in our daily lives tend to do things that we would define as incorrect or unjustifiable.
Holden has a deep connection and a past with Jane Gallagher. He worries about her constantly throughout the novel starting when Stradlater told him he was going out on a date with her the night of Holden's leave to New York City. It can be considered that Jane was one of the only people/girls that Holden remembers joyous moments with and based upon their past Jane Gallagher would be the best candidate for Holden to phone.
In the moment, Holden does let Allie just once shoot bb guns with him and his friends but it was never certain what exactly made Holden decide to let Allie participate with him. Maybe Holden was already aware of Allie's diagnosis of leukemia. Or maybe Holden realized that when he said that Allie was only a kid that he changed his perspective of what he uttered and realized Allie is only a kid and should be able to experience as much as possible before his inevitable death.
ReplyDeleteCaulfield's fixation on Hollywood is interesting because of how much he dislikes the industry. I happen to agree with the author on books made into movies, because most of the time I find that I like the book more than the movie. For some this idea is absurd because the movie is an adaptation of the book and it should be based on whether it was a good book, instead of whether or not it followed the book. For reasons such as this I feel that the author, and to an extent Caulfield, gets that idea that Hollywood is corrupt because most films based on books change, or delete entirely, pivotal moments due to budgets, skewing the books intentions or message. For that I am glad that The Catcher and the Rye wasn’t made into a movie, especially since a movie on this character would not be so well received by adults and children alike. A shame because this book is really good and entertaining, I also wonder who would be cast as Houlden Caulfield, as he is such an unreliable and all around pessimistic character.
The reason Holden consoles himself by acting like a tough guy is because he is still a child, like stated before he's still afraid of the world as a whole. That's what this scene further reveals about Holden, that he is still child and is continues to learn how to deal with decisions and events because he is still growing. The reason why he decided to choose that movie character is because he is not physically strong enough to face this man hmself. This also tells us that society back then and even now still continues to think that a strong and brave man has the same characteristics as the person Holden described.
ReplyDeleteThe reason why Caulfield does not want his book to make it onto the movie screen is because he believes a movie version of the book would ruin the story itself. As the old saying goes, the book is usually better than the movie, this is why Caulfield continuously refuses to sell his book's plot to a movie company. Now if there was ever a fictional movie created based off the Catcher on the Rye, Holden would most likely play a confused vampire trying to find the correct road to maturity without the guidance of his parents or friends.
-Roberto Sevilla
The scene on page 136 in which Holden pretends he has a bullet in his stomach was very interesting to me. As a teenager, almost about to turn eighteen, I still have silly moments and pretend I’m a little kid with a creative imagination. Therefore, it was pretty funny when Holden had this immature, childish reaction to what Maurice had did to him. This reaction presents to readers that Holden is still an immature young boy. I believe Holden consoles himself by pretending to be a hot-shot gangster because he truly knows that he is incapable of actually standing up for himself. There have been multiple cases in which Holden has shown his pacifist personality. For example, when Stradlater and him got into it because Holden kept calling him a “dirty stupid sonuvabitch of a moron” for not truly caring about Jane. Holden even tells us that “I didn’t even bother to get up. I just lay there on the floor for a while, and kept calling him a moron sonuvabitch. I was mad, I was practically bawling” (page 58). As for the culture of the society at the time, this scene demonstrates to readers that Hollywood movies are to the extreme and over exaggerating. Some of these movies rotten the minds of children and put unrealistic events in their heads.
ReplyDeleteDuring Holden’s pretend fantasy, he says he would call Jane over for her to take care of him. I believe he states that he would do this because he knows Jane on a personal level. Holden expresses that him and Jane have known one another for a very long time and have shared intimate and personal experiences. Jane is so significant to Holden because he knows that she would care for him, not like any other girl.
The scene on page 129 describes Holden calling out to his late brother, Allie, saying he is sorry for not letting him go BB gun shooting with him in the past. In relation to the incident in which Holden called out to Jane for comfort, I believe Holden calls out to people he truly trusts when he’s in a time of depression or needs comfort. On page 129, Holden states “what I did, I started talking, sort of out loud, to Allie. I do that sometimes when I get very depressed”. Therefore, readers see that Holden talks to Allie quite often when he needs someone for consolation. In addition, he also feels apologetic towards Allie because it would’ve been an additional time in which he spent with his younger brother.
-Jocelynn Padilla
I have interpreted the passage to be a scene-like act as the details and perception described by Holden had altered in such a way for a film movie. I agree with Jassin Reyes in that this was in fact ironic as Jassin had stated, “Holden mentions in chapter 1 that he hates Hollywood and films for their phoniness,” which in this case he contradicts himself in a matter of creating a scene in a movie-like structure. I also find this statement ironic as Holden had described to us that he would go to the movies while he was still in Pency, even with his younger sister Phoebe. He even despised his brother who was a movie screenwriter in Hollywood, but yet he described to us a movie-like scene in the passage.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that the reason that he pretends to be tough in the scenario is that this was one of his most vulnerable moments in the novel. Holden had been seen to use this opportunity of having a companion to simply talk and converse with Sunny instead of proceeding with sexual relations. After getting beat up by the operator-pimp, Holden was vulnerable. Also, the idea of seeking Jane Gallagher’s assistance of aid, I believe has to deal with Holden’s obsession or maybe even love for her. This is evidenced by how Jane Gallagher was always on Holden’s mind in many instances throughout the book. I believe that he chose her over the prostitute also because the connection he had with Jane was more real and stronger than compared to with Sunny, after all they didn’t really know each other.
Holden may be saying something about society as he may have perceived movies to play a negative impact on the lives of the people at the time. This may be why he despises movies and his older brother moving to Hollywood to be a scriptwriter.
-Rendell Miguel
I think the passage is was meant to bring to light Holden's child like mentality. Holden often acts like a child at times which is shown through his impressive imagination of being shot in the stomach. I also agree with Jassin Reyes that Holden claiming that all actors are fake is ironic. Holden reenacts a scene that would most likely take place in a movie and then mocks people who star in movies. He even goes as far to call his brother, who lives in Hollywood, a phony. In a way he is calling himself a phony because he imagined himself in a movie scene. This shows Holden's immaturity as he continues to grow because he often found to be hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteHolden uses his imagination to console himself because he wants to make an excuse for his mistakes. It is evident when he tries to come up with a logical reason for getting punched. He uses his imagination to escape the reality and keep telling himself that there is a reason. Also, I think he chose Jane because they are very close, and she has been on Holden's mind nonstop. He views her as sort of a partner in crime who would do anything with him and understand the best.
Overall, I think Holden's perspective in society is that everyone is fake. Everyone pretends to be happy or acts like everything is going great. When in reality, everyone is facing their own problems and do not want to share them. He is also showing that even he has his own problems which he describes in this story.
-Jered Relopez
Although this is a different take, I saw this scene as the confirmation that although Holden thinks/imagines himself as tough, none of his personal thoughts or ulterior motives ever spring to life, whether or not it is Holden talking too big or creating imaginary scenarios that are unlikely or impossible. This internal habit is shown further in the novel, when he (although having a current dislike for Sally) created an entire runaway scenario in his head, which involved a marriage to Sally, a getaway through the woods, and betting on finding a job in a foreign area.
ReplyDeleteHolden's ideas, to be frank, are glaring signs of his retained immaturity, and ability to accept the realities of life. It is sort of a soft metaphor for Holden's life, and the fact that the world doesn't revolve around him, and that happy conclusions do not come free. I could still be far-fetched though.
-Andre Yee
I partially agree and disagree with Andre's statement that this scenario was a result of Holden's innate immaturity. For example towards the beginning of the book Holden states himself, he admits that he can act out of his age which includes younger. Generally younger kids do like to use their imagination and put themselves in situations out of their reach, I can totally relate to this also for i generally have a childish personality also and occasionally like to take part in fictional situations, mostly through video games. However I believe there may be another reason to Holden's actions of comparing himself with a movie character, it however might be a stretch but basically this is also plays into the theme of Holden being different or wanting to be different compared to everyone else. For most people would just lie on the floor in pain and rest it off (which he did) but the fact is he desired to do what a fictional character would do, what most people wouldn't have done. This is why I partially disagree with andre.
DeleteIn today's society men may not be superior compared to women, but they do have superior abilities. It is demonstrated through movies and novels. Men described in books and films are stronger, faster, and better than women. By doing this, men begin to surmise that this is how they were made to be. Specifically, in this novel, Holden Caulfield, imagined himself as a tough guy in a movie, shooting a pimp because it is how our society has instituted men to be.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Holden remains calling his older brother, D.B, a phoney and a sell out. While he also says, "The goddamn movies... They can ruin you..". After reading these two assertions made by Holden, I came to realize that when he indicated that movies can ruin you, he is referring to his brother, D.B, as well as the movies that he creates. Also, when mentioning his opinion about movies in general, it symbolizes that society is so hung up on how people are expected to be. Because of this factor, Holden was in a bit of a quandary on his perspective on things since his mind is set on one thing, but society says another. He is strictly apathetic to the social norms of the society.
Shortly after, Holden mentioned that he would call over Jane to come and take care of him. I think that he would rather choose to call Jane other than any other girl that he has encountered himself with because she is a symbolism of his childhood. To Holden, his childhood is very important to him, due to the fact that he reiterates moments of his childhood with her. During his early years, his life was filled with innocence, honesty, and curiosity, all of which he believes the real world lacks. He likes Jane because of how innocent she is. I mean, she keeps her kings at the back row of the chess board. He decides to call her because they have been through everything together and is his comfort.
After re-reading the passage where Holden stopped his little brother from going with him to shoot BB guns, I noticed that Holden had said, "When I get very depressed, I say to him "okay. Go home and get your bike.."(129). After coming across this phrase, I began to consider that maybe the death of his little brother, Allie is what had caused Holden to become the way he is. Maybe he feels guilty about the way he treated him at times. Whenever Holden speaks of being "depressed", he instantly starts talking to his brother, or brings back an old memory of him. Hence, making Allie the dominant reason of why Holden is "crazy".
I agree with most of my peers in the statement that I believe that Holden just acts as a tough guy so that he feels better about himself and he doesn't want to admit that he is the complete opposite of a tough guy. In my eyes, this could be saying about society today, in which some people try to act hard and tough, but in reality are scared and weak. There are people on social media that act tough all the time and pick on others, but once they're confronted in person, it's a different story. In my opinion, Holden, like everyone else that tries to act tough, just wants to fit in and wants to be respected and thought to be "cool" by being tough. This could also include his rude, childish, and rebellious personality.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Jane, I believe that Holden called Jane because she is the only girl that Holden has ever been interested in and he doesn't want anyone else. Jane is one of the few girls that Holden actually appreciates in his life, even though there isn't interaction, just storytelling. But his memories with her are much appreciated and memorable enough for him to call her.
- Ryan Dasmarinas
I suppose Holden consoles himself by acting a tough guy character from a movie because of his immaturity. He views them as the kind of person that do not let anything affect them and are willing to persevere through any hardship. With that in mind, Holden believes that he too will survive like a movie tough guy. Holden pretending tells that he does not think he can do the exact same thing if he was himself. He is still figuring out the idea of standing up for himself. This makes sense since he is transitioning from a child to an adult and I believe that learning to stand up for yourself can only be learned through experience. Holden is slowly to stand up for himself. In the beginning of the book, Holden declares himself as “a pacifist” (Salinger 59). However, when the prostitute and pimp were looking to get the rest of the money from Holden, he attempts to stand his ground by explaining that he was told to pay that amount of money so that is what he gave the prostitute. Even though Holden ends up getting beat up, it shows that he has is progressing.
ReplyDeleteHolden calls over Jane and not any other girl because he views her as his only true friend. In chapter 11, he remembers the time they have spent together which included Holden working with Jane to improve her golf skills and watching a movie while holding hands. I have to agree with Camryn’s comment about Jane bringing out the good in Holden because when he was sharing the times they hung out he was entirely positive. I think Holden just wanted to get away from his current state and just be with a person that reminds him of so many fond memories.
Regarding the scene with Holden preventing Allie from joining him play with BB guns, I believe Holden was being a responsible older brother. He wanted Allie to stay innocent and to not grow up too soon. I have determined that Holden felt guilt for not allowing Allie to play with him because they could have been together creating memories but they would never get that chance again due to Allie’s passing.
I suppose Holden consoles himself by acting a tough guy character from a movie because of his immaturity. He views them as the kind of person that do not let anything affect them and are willing to persevere through any hardship. With that in mind, Holden believes that he too will survive like a movie tough guy. Holden pretending tells that he does not think he can do the exact same thing if he was himself. He is still figuring out the idea of standing up for himself. This makes sense since he is transitioning from a child to an adult and I believe that learning to stand up for yourself can only be learned through experience. Holden is slowly to stand up for himself. In the beginning of the book, Holden declares himself as “a pacifist” (Salinger 59). However, when the prostitute and pimp were looking to get the rest of the money from Holden, he attempts to stand his ground by explaining that he was told to pay that amount of money so that is what he gave the prostitute. Even though Holden ends up getting beat up, it shows that he has is progressing.
ReplyDeleteHolden calls over Jane and not any other girl because he views her as his only true friend. In chapter 11, he remembers the time they have spent together which included Holden working with Jane to improve her golf skills and watching a movie while holding hands. I have to agree with Camryn’s comment about Jane bringing out the good in Holden because when he was sharing the times they hung out he was entirely positive. I think Holden just wanted to get away from his current state and just be with a person that reminds him of so many fond memories.
Regarding the scene with Holden preventing Allie from joining him play with BB guns, I believe Holden was being a responsible older brother. He wanted Allie to stay innocent and to not grow up too soon. I have determined that Holden felt guilt for not allowing Allie to play with him because they could have been together creating memories but they would never get that chance again due to Allie’s passing.
I completely agree with Mark, in that Holden pretends to be shot due to the fact that he does not want to let go of his youth. The childish spirit inside him would come up with a delusional alternate story behind his wound, rather than act more mature and call for help. Furthermore, I think Holden would call over Jane instead of anybody else because he trusts her the most to take care of him. I like to think of Jane as the “bond girl” in this situation. Jane has had a significant impact on Holden’s life in the past, and has essentially helped him in a way, like James Bond’s sidekicks. Also, similar to how there is a different girl in every James Bond movie, it seems Caulfield moved on to another woman, perhaps out of desperation, Sally Hayes. Although, he failed to progress his relationship with her. On a separate note, I think the significance of the passage on page 98 is that Holden was trying to protect Allie’s innocence, like Mark stated before. BB guns could be considered an adult’s toy, considering the risk of seriously injuring someone. I think Holden wanted to be like an adult and play with those types of toys, but he wanted to preserve Allie’s youthfulness and play with his bike or something else.
ReplyDelete-Ahren Aguinaldo
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ReplyDeleteHolden Caulfield develops throughout the novel into an unique character that would be difficult for actors or actresses even to fill in for if this novel were to be produced into a movie. In today's Hollywood, as Mr. Rodriguez suggests, a "good" Holden would best be portrayed by a person who could exude a "tough guy" attitude in "tough guy" situations. However, Holden does not retain this personality and reveals a hint of immature or underdeveloped thinking throughout the novel. Although Holden consistently states his dislike towards the movie business, he seems to console himself in different situations in what he thinks are decisions tough guys in the movies make. Throughout the novel, Holden has this act where he thinks he is a big and strong guy with a tough attitude that he needs to make sure all of the people around him know he has by taking action. One of these actions include the scene after the elevator-operator pimp in which he contemplates shooting the threatening pimp, ridding of the weapon, and finally calling upon his dear Jane to comfort him after his revenge plan. This truly does capture the image of a "tough guy" who plots their revenge and seek out someone close to them (at least in their own mind) to be with them after "battle" is won. The reasons behind these behaviors though vary, even with Holden. While he attempts to carry a "tough guy" persona through his actions, Holden reveals to the reader his own recognition of his weakness in socialization. Jane, for instance, has an influence on Holden's mentality as he loses himself in thinking about simply talking to her and being in her presence. Holden unveils a softer side to his masculinity in his feelings for Jane who always seems to reoccur in his mind throughout his journey.
ReplyDeleteHolden experiences events that reflect a commonly recognized aspect of society usually identified as masculinity. I agree with what Trinity discusses about in the beginning of her post about how Holden confronts the norms of society well throughout the novel. Men in society are pressured into being strong, smart, and tough characters, especially in movie roles. Holden, in his case, is figuring out what kind of tough guy he will be as he journeys throughout the novel. After completing the novel, I believe that Holden is a difficult character who is still trying to figure out what his purpose is through his experiences as the "tough guy" in his mind.
-Leiana Lepule
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs what most of my peers said above, Holden's momentary breaks from reality and imagining to be in a sort of movie scene is his way yo cope with harsh predicaments he's put through. Holden imagining of getting shot and shooting Maurice is his way of recovering from the fear of getting beaten from a pimp and possibly almost losing his life. I agree with Andre Yee in that Holden always imagines his motives but never ends up going through with them, such as him planning to leave town and go west. I also agree on the fact Holden's idea are a sign of immaturity and even in the novel Holden alludes to this when he mentions 'The goddam movies...They can ruin you...'. When Holden mentions this it reveals the conflicting nature of what Holden wants to be. He stays immature and childlike through out the novel, but after a situation passes he tries imagining on how it would've went if he wasn't so 'yellow'. Even when he was regretting on not finding out who stole his mittens and then imagining being a deceptive to find the culprit, he ends it by stating his mittens didn't really mattered to him, further making his though process very conflicting and frustrating to fully understand.
ReplyDelete-Daniel R. Diaz
In the beginning of the novel, it was apparent that Holden did not like his brothers involvement in Hollywood. He believes that those who are in Hollywood are “phonies” and do not stay true to themselves once they are casted in. I agree with Mariana Velasco and Micah Rodriquez about how Holden’s view of Hollywood could reflect J.D. Salinger’s distaste of the same topic. It would explain why Salinger did not want “The Catcher in the Rye” to become a major movie production because he feels that Hollywood would ruin the novel and leave out important details regarding the plot.
ReplyDeleteHolden pretending to be tough really has to do with the fact that he knows that he is immature. Because of that, he tries to create a facade so that people around him will take him seriously. Unfortunately, for him, it never works in the long run because he reverts to his usual self. I believe Holden calls Jane whenever he is in trouble because he thinks that she would not judge him, no matter what type of situation he is in. Jane could also be Holden's safety net, so whenever he gets in trouble he feels obligated to call her.
-Ayauna Cunningham
When Holden calls his brother D.B a sell out, he also refers to him as a prostitute in Hollywood. He believes that his brother is utilizing his talent as a writer inappropriately. He feels that he is not writing serious books, but instead writing scripts for Hollywood. Holden thinks he is disowning the intellectual pursuit he should have as a writer. He only writes for the money. However, I believe that Holden might be jealous. While he is suffering with his life, his brother is living the dream. I think this is another situation were Holden contradicts himself. He has an issue with Hollywood, but then why does he pretend to be shot and act as if he were in a movie? I think Holden has lost his innocence and he considers Hollywood a place that is corrupt were innocence is lost. In think that in his mind he want purity and a clean society, something he does not see in the world. I believe he is upset that his brother went to an area like that and maybe Jolden believes he is becoming like him.
ReplyDelete-Carola Cabral
As with most of my peers, I agree with their assessments of both Holdens and J.D. Salingers dislike of Hollywood. As they have stated before, Salingers dislike might not only have led him into refusing movie deals, but it seems to also be reflected in Holden's dislike of his brother in Hollywood.
ReplyDeleteDuring that time, I assume most men wanted to be the "manly" men, the ones who took care of their families and weren't afraid of anything. This would lead Holden to briefly act out how the world wanted to see him. It is contradictory however, as acting as a tough guy would also cause him to be one of the "phonies" he despises. However he knows its only an escape from reality, which leads him to say "The goddam movies... They can ruin you..."
What's significant about Jane is one could perceive her as his first crush. She's the only girl he's actually interested in; while he sees the faults of all the other women he has met, he looks past those flaws and sees Jane as the only one he's compatible with.
The significance of the passage of the BB guns would be the fact that Holden sees himself as more mature. The age difference between his brother and Holden is minimal, however he sees him as a child when he's still a child himself. The passage only shows a child trying to act like an adult.
I will confess, there have been occasions where I have imagined unrealistic scenes to unfold in my life, so I feel the need to tie in my own feelings to my response.
ReplyDeleteHolden imagines himself to get revenge on the bad guy shortly after losing the battle. A cool mafia-like scene is created in his mind. He does this because there is no other way to achieve a cool victory other than through fantasies. He failed to succeed in reality, therefore he resorts to make believing it. It can be seen somewhat as a coping mechanism for his own inabilities, albeit a fairly immature and childish one.
This can portray a weakness in society. When faced with a failure, rather than working to improve oneself, many choose to close their eyes and run off to an alternate reality. People dream to be as cool as the individuals they see on screen. Despite how everything in movies is fake and unrealistic, people want to become like this nonexistent character.
And in regards to Jane, he specifically chose her because she is special to him. The one he truly cares about, perhaps even his first love. Truly, with her, he would be able to obtain a happy ending.
-Kiara Mendaros
I think Holden consoles himself as a tough guy because his imagination is taking over. Like most of my peers have referenced, Holden acts childish. He pretends to be an adult but he shies away from it when it’s not an act. After he gets beat up, he imagines a dramatic scenario because it is his imagination running. I’m pretty sure most people would agree that people make up scenarios in their mind of what they wish they should’ve done or what they will do when a certain events happens. Movies overemphasize scenes so that they can be entertaining and in this case, Holden’s mind is just creating a movie in his head. But this also reveals something about culture. In this time period, movies often depicted men as being strong, brave and chivalrous. And in return, boys looked up to that and faced this expectation that if you weren’t “manly”, then you aren’t fit for society. In his imaginary scenario, he would call over Jane because she’s the only girl he’s longing for. Almost as if she’s waiting for him to return back from war or something. Innocence is a huge topic of this novel and Holden admires those who preserve that innocence. The memories he recalls of Jane are all innocent and that’s what he bases his attraction for Jane on. During this age, it’s common that people begin to “lose” their innocence, and especially in filthy New York City Holden is so surrounded by drugs, alcohol and promiscuity that he craves that innocence and youthful atmosphere that Jane would provide.
ReplyDeleteIn the passage where Holden refuses to bring Allie along, the topic of innocence is present again. Holden looks at Allie as a pure and the act of using BB guns to shoot at something would pollute that innocence. He wanted Allie and wants Phoebe to hold onto their innocence for as long as they can because he is knows that they will eventually be sucked into the cruel, dirty, scary world and he’s trying hard to expand that time period of childhood beforehand.
-Renee Navarro
DeleteThe reoccurring theme for this novel seems to be innocence and the idea that as we get older it diminishes. Holden did not want his brother Allie to play with a BB gun because he might have believed it would take away from his innocence. Ironically he was also a child and yet he was trying to act like an adult. It's also ironic that although Holden shows his dislike for Hollywood and theatre that he would cope by pretending he's in a movie after the altercation. Although, it's not surprising that Holden would want to aspire to be a "manly" or "badass" type character. Even in today's society these types of people are often portrayed as the "ideal" way to be. As for why Holden asked for Jane it could have been a moment of weakness where he longed for someone who had impacted his life in the past, and that he feels could impact his life in the future.
ReplyDelete-Andrea Pagano
I definitely do agree with my peer Andrea, Caulfield did portray a childish side of him during some situations, and the fact that he would "act" manly just proved that Caulfield knew that he did not fully act like an adult during most times. I also agree with Andrea when it comes to the irony shown by the narrator every time he acts. I also figured that Caulfield's portrayed some irony because Caulfield since the beginning, informed us readers that he was not a total fan of Hollywood and actors however, he still pretended as if he were a movie actor in Hollywood. During one of his "little acting scenes" Caulfield calls Jane to take care of him after he had been wounded , this just furthermore proves that Caulfield really did see himself living a life with Jane sine she was obviously one of the few girls that truly impacted his life.
DeleteBy saying movies ruin you, Holden means that they dramatize simple actions. Like some of my peers have admitted, I myself have imagined dramatic events in my life. It has previously been discussed that Holden feels isolated; therefore, he exaggerates some aspects of his life to keep himself entertained. Furthermore, I believe Holden consoles himself by acting like a tough guy to attack American pop culture. In movies men are usually never portrayed as weak or emotional, even if they are under stress, like Holden.
ReplyDeleteFinally, I do not think this book should be transferred to the big screen. Many movies fail to capture the unique essence of books, and like Mr. Rodriguez implied producing a movie would only take away from the book's mystique.
-Ingrid Reyes
Like many other times throughout this novel, I believe we find Holden conversing with himself. One example of this is how he continuously tells himself that he is suave. I feel that Holden imagines himself in these situations because he lacks the confidence to actually do anything. Because Holden is also very lonely I believe this is the only way to console himself because there isn't anyone to actually do so. In regards to him stating the movies will mess you up I believe he is referring to the idea of Jane actually coming over. Later on in the book, Holden often refers to other works of literature and claims that they bore him once they mention the issue of love. Holden yearns to feel that type of love and I believe he seeks it. Because he believes it is far from his grasp he despises just the thought of it. I believe that Holden often seeks after Jane because it may have been his first love and he hints to the audience that she was unique and different. Then again, its as if Jane was one of his only friends in the past since she is one of the very few he mentions from his past besides his family.
ReplyDelete-Devin Wong-Magusara
Holden appears to be against anything that is considered to be mainstream since he sees it as phony or fake. This is seen when Holden goes to the movies with friends and he always has something negative to say about it. He will say either the actors were not good enough or they were too good to the point that they themselves knew they were good which was unappealing to Holden. Also when Holden was in a club he believed that the singer thinks he is better than everyone else. Regardless of the fact that Holden criticizes actors and singers and such I feel as though he still enjoys going to watch. If his complaints really bothered him in the way that Holden makes it out to be then he would not continue attending if it didn't still interest him in the slightest. Holden even stated this one of the times he went out with Ackley and said that the singer was better the previous times then when he saw him. The scene on page 104 I believe to be a reflection of what Holden is used to seeing in the movies. That is why I think that Holden acts like a tough guy after he gets beat up. Since Holden’s been influenced by the movies he has watched Holden probably believes if he acts like a tough guy after he gets beat up to get over the situation quicker. Also to boost his self esteem and just make him feel better about himself in general.
ReplyDeleteI would actually be interested if a movie came out for the Cater in the Rye. I would not know which actors are the best fit for certain roles, however I am interested in how the book is seen on the big screen. In my mind I've created my own version of Holden and Jane and Ackley different from the rest of my peers I would believe and it would be interesting to watch how the book is portrayed.
-Alyssa Ariza
I agree with Ingrid Reyes in that movies dramatize simple actions and I think they create unrealistic expectations from life. On page 104 Holden is pretending to be in this adult situation to console himself from the reality, which is that he’s simply still a kid that couldn’t stand up for himself. He chooses Jane Gallagher over some other girl like the prostitute from earlier for example because she’s the girl he enjoys being with and makes him happy. With the scene he creates in his head, he is certainly saying something about the culture at the time. Like my peers have said above, the ideal man at the time was seen as strong, independent, and charming.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden calls his older brother a sell out for “prostituting himself” out in Hollywood, he means that he’s only doing it for the money. He’s not taking his writing seriously or doing because it’s his passion and he loves it. I really don’t think The Catcher in the Rye should be made into a movie since it could lose its mystique like Mr. Rodriguez said, but I can’t say I wouldn’t watch it if it was made into one.
First off, if I had to choose an actor to play Holden, I would choose Benedict Cumberbatch from the big movie title, "The Imitation Game". Actually when I read the book this is the face I picture as Holden. They are both odd characters for one, and Cumberbatch has a build that closely resembles the description of Holden's build. That is why I would choose This actor to play Holden.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, when Holden gets punched by the elevator hand and starts acting dramatic and talking to himself about being tough, I feel like Holden does because he already knows that he is a "yellow" kind of guy when it came to violence. With that said I think talking ti himself telling himself this own little story of what just happened could've just been shock, or Holden trying to get a grip on what just happened...in his own way.
-Isaiah Wilson
i think the reason Holden despises Hollywood and the movies so much is because they produce false hope and "happily ever afters" when in Holdens life, that's not the case. whenever Holden gets annoyed or doesn't want to accept the circumstances of something suchas his brothers job as a screenwriter in hollywood, he refers to them as a "phony". almost as to say that their not being authentic and that their efforts are in vain. so when he refers to his brother D.B in Hollywood as a phony he doesn't believe what he's doing is right. what I've realized while reading this book is that Holden is very bitter about the world and the people in it. his regretful experiences in life have caused him to form this "phony" outlook on life and act bitterly towards those who try and make the world something it is not. the movies create false senses of hope and love, which is something Holden has never been able to have. that is why he refuses to acknowledge and accept them.
ReplyDeletethat is why the elevator scene is so important in the story. at that moment Holden totally disregarded his bitterness toward movies and allowed himself to get swallowed up in his own fantasies. the scene depicted a very low point in Holdens life and showed just how extensive his depression and mental health really were.
Throughout the whole novel, I was confused on Holden's definition for the word "phony." Naturally, I believed that he meant fake in general. However, I still do not understand what he truly means by phony since some things he talks about, he does not label as phony. After reading Kassandra's post on the topic, I strongly agree with her statements about how the author sees Hollywood.
DeleteIt would also be very ironic for a movie to be made about this book, considering that Holden basically bashes on Hollywood and for it to be produced there. I also believe that the author also did not want to ruin the themes of the novel with a picture because there is a chance that in a movie, the focus would be how crazy Holden is rather than the main themes in the novel. In a picture, it could be too distracting to have Holden to be as crazy as he is in the story so producers may alter the true character of Holden Caulfield, changing the actual written story.
-Carla Alipit Francisco
After reading this blog post and then rereading the passage about the pimp and Holden, I believe that the reason the author seems to hold such contempt for movies, and Hollywood which promotes them, is because they offer false realities. Usually when one thinks about a movie, the positive side is always considered. Most people like them because they are able to use them to escape the real world and use their imagination for the sake of entertainment. However, not a lot of people consider how movies and Hollywood could be negative influences. The author clearly does and uses Holden to embody this concept that movies distort reality and cause people to harbor unrealistic dreams and aspirations. Despite this, the author chooses to have Holden pretend to be some tough guy from a movie. I believe the author does this to show that though Holden holds contempt for the false reality fostered by movies, he had to put aside these feelings in order to get over this event that put his mental in a very negative place.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the first question Mr. Rodriguez presented, I think Holden consoles himself with the idea of pretending to be a "tough character from a movie" , to communicate to us the superficial and fake aspects of the movie industry. By comforting his situation with him pretending to be someone tough, Holden is demonstrating how movies often portray unrealistic characters, living life in a truly "phony" way; and making viewers start to believe in these creations.
ReplyDeleteI also think that through Holden, the author intends to argue something about American culture, and specifically related to the way we are entertained. The music and movie industries are only two that are very influential in American culture, but considering the time this book takes place, I can assume movies were not only extremely entertaining for people, but through them many different ideas and messages were hidden to specifically target the general American public. The movie industry could have intentionally used "phony" characters and "phony" lives as mere distractions from political issues, as Holden has noticed. The fact Holden has identified the hidden flaw of the movie industry, adds on to how different this protagonist is from the world around him. While others fall for the superficiality of the lives movie characters hold, Holden refuses to believe in them, because he knows that his life is a clear example of how not everything turns out good and perfect in the end, like in movies.
Holden's life gives us readers an example of the total opposite of perfection, and unlike movie scenarios with "tough" characters, life is not like one wishes to see in a film.
Additionally, Jane is mentioned as Holden wants to call her. I think he chooses her, and not any other girl because he feels she comforts him, and unlike the feeling he has with any other person, with Jane he finds peace and genuine companionship.
On the last note, the part when Holden describes how he told his brother he was not going to go shoot BB guns, I think the significance of this is the fact his brother was letting things like movies get to his head and make him believe he could be just like a character in a film. Holden was small and unlike his brother has never wanted to conform to the world around him, showing us as readers two different people. One like Holden who refuses to fall for social norms, and another his brother who since he was little desired doing things, even shooting guns, like many movie characters happen to do. Also, his brother proves how different he is as he chose to join the movie industry so much that Holden calls him a hollywood "phony", as he works for the same industry that fails to project life as it really is.
I am not sure if I am interpreting this situation correctly but I would like to think the reason Holden constantly talks bad about the movie industry and other factors that are very influential during his life, is because he finds that these aspects are only ways to comfort the public, by blinding them with "phony" ideas.
Holden hates Hollywood because the movie industry sets a certain standard that isn't realistic. I think Holden was pretending to act like a tough guy because in movies, the characters never really show weakness. I feel like Holden is trying to say something about himself, throughout the whole book, Holden tries to give off the impression that he's tough and has an "I don't care" type of attitude when in reality, he's broken and hurting inside. Out of all the girls, Holden would choose Jane simply because he has feelings for her. He finds her different/special compared to other girls and talks very positively about her.
ReplyDelete-Mikayla Lubong
Holden decides to console himself by pretending to act like a tough character because its someone he deep down desires to be. This character he acts out would most likely fit in with the expectations of a male in society. Relating to our current issue this desire still continues, even more with the availability of various media platforms. The earning of wanting to act, look, and overall become another person that might not likely agree with one's morals. This then goes hand and hand with his hatred of Hollywood. Hollywood during this era was one of the largest social platforms, what was shown was acceptable and encouraged for women and men to act like. Hollywood seems to be the source that is producing "phonies". The classic Hollywood film ending, and preferred by a majority, is a happy ending. This is why he decides to call over Jane instead of the prostitute. By being with Jane after the revenge scene, he gets his happy ending. Holden lacks these happy endings that are promoted all over Hollywood films, which he is envious of. The death,ending, of his brother Allie brought pain and anger into him. So when he knew that his older brother was working for Hollywood, he felt it was a form of betrayal. A betrayal to what writing meant to his older brother, and Allies tragic end.
ReplyDeleteI believe that a movie should not be made for the novel. Movies are visual representations of a story, however the novel's significance is not about the actions that Holden does, but rather his own thoughts. Like many of my classmates have stated, it would be difficult to appeal to the audience of a movie since most of the plot was Holden narrating his own memories and feelings. Perhaps maybe the reason why Salinger did not want a movie of the novel released is that Holden is not a character made for movies. That is why it is so difficult to find a person to play Holden Caulfield. Holden is not a wizard or superhero because his power is not found in his actions, but rather his thoughts. The character of Holden Caulfield is not significant because he is visually stimulating, but because he is thought-provoking.
ReplyDeleteAlso, perhaps Holden's disappointment for D.B is related to his hatred of movies. When he is attacked by Maurice, Holden has a scenario in his mind where he is a "tough guy gangster". However, as we know Holden constantly falls short of these scenarios in his mind. This disappointment is what causes Holden to despise the movies and D.B. Hollywood writers, like D.B, create movies that show an unrealistic character that brings hope into the movie audience, only to have the real world crush their expectations. That is what Holden implies when he states that the movies "can ruin you". Holden believes that movies ruin society.
If Jane is a symbol of innocence and purity, then Holden probably has her on his mind because he wants to return to his childhood with her. He never actually does spend time with Jane while in New York City, and so it could represent the fact that Holden cannot go back in time. Jane represents Holden's past, and he never returns to her, just as if he cannot return to his childhood. Holden's obsession with aging is what makes Jane so significant throughout the novel. Most characters Holden encounters are only mentioned in a few chapters of the novel, however Jane and Phoebe, who are symbols of innocence, are mentioned throughout the whole book.
Holden talks about how he despises actors because they are either too unbelievable or too believable. This sentiments can be seen in his descriptions of the play, "I Know My Love". He claims, "...I didn't care too much when anybody in the family died or anything. They were all just a bunch of actors" (139-140). What Holden is saying is that, no matter what happens, these celebrities are acting. They are intentionally lying for the sake of putting on a show. So when a pivotal moment occurs, to Holden, it is just a performance and nothing else. Even though he does praise the acting of the protagonists, he finds that their acting is too good, because they were trying to show off. The characters in the play were trying to be real, but they tried too hard. Holden just cannot get into a play or a movie because the actors are, in his words, "phony".
ReplyDeleteAlso, this is why Holden is upset that D.B. left to work in Hollywood. Holden believed that D.B. was contributing to this notion that Hollywood glorifies "phonies". In a way, Holden is correct. Hollywood is where celebrities go to be popular, and in many cases, they have to change who they are to be a part of it. Hollywood is where child stars have grown up to become violent, hedonistic adults. And D.B. is there, feeding this transformation. Even today, this problem remains an issue. Celebrities that go into the entertainment industry change for the worse, as many child stars have done. The rise of actors and actresses like Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt have shown that some entertainers do not want to become "phonies" to impress others.
-Maxwell Bauer
Holden comforts himself by pretending to be a movie character because he is still a child, and movies are fantasies. Children protect themselves from pain be pretending to live in another world, one that they can control and be whoever they want to be. Movies are the physical embodiment of dreams and fantasies. They are stories that come straight from our imaginations. Holden chooses to be a character from an action movie because those characters always seem so strong and impenetrable, something that Holden isn't. It's a way for Holden to pretend to be someone he isn't, to protect himself from his cruel circumstances and his weaknesses.
ReplyDelete-Mackenzie Spence
Holden hates Hollywood because it idealizes a false image. It makes people think that the people that are the most popular, the most successful are those who are rich, those who are fancy, and those who surround themselves with material things and invest their lives into something that will eventually fade away. The reason Holden considers his brother a phony is because his brother is a screenplay writer, which makes him a part of the Hollywood machine that spits out the image that everyone strives to emulate. Holden does not care about material things, this is obvious in the way that he treats his money. He sells his typewriter for way less than its worth, and blows his money without giving it a second thought. To Holden, money is part of the problem, and he would like to have nothing to do with it.
ReplyDeleteXavier Sanchez
One more note, I do not think that a movie based on The Catcher in The Rye will happen. This is because part of the book's focus is on avoiding Hollywood, and it would not make sense to make a movie about something that is against Hollywood. That is just my thoughts, however Salinger's son may have a different opinion.
DeleteAfter being humiliated by crying and getting assaulted from an elevator pimp and a prostitute Holden pretends to be a tough movie character in seek of revenge. Not only does Holden demonstrate his childish side by creating his own dramatic movie scene in his head–which is ironic given the fact that he does not like movies–but he also tries to communicate to the reader that he wishes he were capable of defending himself. “It's no fun to be yellow.” Holden admits to being a coward when it comes to picking a fight and he detests that from himself, but the field of film making allows him to create the character he longs to be even if it is for a split second.
ReplyDeleteAs for Jane, she has always been Holden’s fantasy love. By calling Jane it would give Holden the best of both worlds–being tough and vengeful while still preserving that innocence and purity Jane evokes on Holden.
On another note, the memory of not allowing his brother Allie to go shoot BB guns was an act of protection. As a child most parents prohibit their kids to play with toys that represent death and violence because they are yet to small to be exposed to it. As the older brother Holden was only trying to protect his brothers innocence by not introducing him to the use of guns.
-Gisselle Gonzalez
As many of my peers have stated, Holden Caulfield is not the tough guy character seen in movies. He is weak and not mature enough to be that idolized character. Also, he shows just how immature he is when he pretends to be a tough guy in the movie but he states he does not like Hollywood or movies. In addition, he would choose to call Jane because she is one of the very few females he respects and cares about.
ReplyDeleteHolden calls his brother a phony because he works in Hollywood. This is due to the fact that most people working in Hollywood are fake and are no longer pure. Even though it may not seem like it, Holden actually cares about the innocence in people, which is why he values his pure female friend, Jane, so much.
This relates back to when Holden and Allie were younger, and he would not let Allie go with him to shoot the BB guns. At first, it seemed like Holden taunting him, since he is not allowing his younger brother to go with him. However, the bigger picture is that Holden cares about his brother and wants to protect him from the dangerous things in the world that can take away his innocence.
- Janelle Douglas
I believe that Holden Caulfield consoles himself as a tough guy because like my peers have stated, he is not like the tough guys in movies. In reality, he is still a young and weak child who is learning and improving his maturity. Adding on to my peers, pretending to be the tough guy gives Holden the time to fantasize on how life can be like that way. Jane Gallagher is special to Holden because she is the one thing that is still part of his past that is in good terms with him.
ReplyDeleteThe memory of when Holden stopped Allie to go shoot BB guns with him is the guilt. The guilt of him not allowing him go still lingers in his mind but he was only trying to protect his brother since he was younger. It was an act of protection for his family because he cares for him.
-Alessandra Gatchalian
When reading the scene in which Holden unfortunately gets beat up by the character Maurice, which is the pimp, over the fact that he didn’t have enough money I can deduce that Holden does not have a clear grasp over reality. Through the book, you can tell that he lives in a fantasy in order to escape his problems that he is on currently. A problem that he is dealing with is the death of his younger brother called Allie Caulfield that occurred a couple years ago. This shows that Holden is emotionally isolated from other people due to the lack of interaction with other characters. Other characters that he has had no interaction with such as phoebe Caulfield which has not yet met Holden so far and even Jane Gallagher which has only been mentioned shortly. The only way that Holden can deal with all of this is by living in this such fantasy acting as a tough person that can in fact overcome all of his issues. The only person that has been keeping Holden going has been Jane which is the only person he thinks about and makes him overcome his issues which can mean that she symbolizes someone prestigious to keep living for.
ReplyDelete-Diego Arriola
In the opening scene of the book, Holden speaks about his brother in Hollywood and states, "If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention them to me." (2). Then when I read the passage about his involvement with Sonny the prostitute, it had dawned on me that she was a representation of "Hollywood" and one of the reasons why he despised it so much, from her unattractive dress to her personality, it was the ultimate effect Hollywood had on a person. That is why I had found it so ironic that as much as he disliked the movies, the scene of him devising a plan to seek revenge is a typical movie plot in a gangster movie. To make up for his embarrassing defeat from Maurice, he needed a way to boost his self esteem and to prevent from being humiliated. And the reason why he wants to call upon Jane is because she is one of the only few Women in his life he trusts immensely.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden reminisces about the time when he stopped Allie from shooting the BB gun, it was a reminder of the guilt he must have felt for not letting Allie live his life to the fullest before his premature death. This passage touches on the loving aspects of Holden's personality and how when he care deeply about someone, he will not let them get in harms way.
-Camille Taylor
It is very apparent that a Holden doesn’t like reality all that much. Holden prefers to rather transport himself to an alternate place where he is braver, cooler, stronger, and gets the girl rather then deal with the reality that he is alone, sad, hurt, and alone in a hotel room. He may not like the movies because of their phoniness and portraying people as something their not, but Holden does this in his own head which highlights the irony in the situation. Jane is also the girl he has been thinking about throughout the whole novel and he seems to care about her enough for him to want her to take care him and not an imaginary girl he barely knows. It appears that Holden take bits of his reality and twists it into something he can cope with and stop himself from acknowledging the truth of what has happened to him and how sad it is.
ReplyDelete-Atlantis Rodriguez
Holden associates himself to be the tough guy because he knows he isn't one. He has a long way to go to become mature, and an unhealthy and unstable mind doesn't help. So he goes away into this imaginary world he has created and imagines how things should be for him, just like in the movies, happily ever after. He looks to Jane because she is the representation of innocence, and is that balance he needs in his life. He is fond of her, and knows that she is what brings him back to earth. She is pure as my peers have mentioned. And Holden doesn't want to lose that.
ReplyDeleteA side note:
I believe if this book were to be converted to a film, it would definitely be under the independent category. Who would play Holden, I'm not sure. Someone young who is good at expressing emotion and can pull off a troubled, misunderstood life. I have a list of actors and actresses that come to mind for each film. But Logan Lerman is the name lingering in my head to play Holden. Perhaps due to his performance in Perks of Being a Wallflower.
Sorry, it's the film junkie speaking.
As I was reading, I could not help but to comment on how similar this book is to the 1999 movie Fight Club. Holden Caulfield reminds me such much of Edward Norton in the movie and how much he tried to differentiate himself with society. We see Edward Norton in the film attending addiction program meetings in order to find a place where he could "fit-in" such as we see Holden do throughout the book. It is funny you brought up Holden's "tough guy" persona by mentioning the way he comments on groups of individuals. This related me so much to Edward Norton's "tough guy" persona (Tyler Durden)in the movie Fight Club who was actually played by Brad Pitt as a "separate" character until we figure out they were the same person all along. If the Catcher in the Rye had any similarity to a movie in Hollywood it would be Fight Club, because throughout the film we see the Protagonist narrating the movie as if he was speaking from his thoughts much like as we see Holden do in the book.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason why he consoles over Jane so much is the fact that she is probably the only person who actually gets him as a person and understands him. Jane was a childhood friend of Holden and often dabbled in a few memories of himself getting "touchy" with her. I feel as though he respects Jane as being the only person other than his sister who actually can understand what is going on in his head. I believe Holden pulled the "tough guy" persona as a mask to protect his feelings from being hurt by unknown individuals he does not feel comfortable with which is why he is always consoled about Jane.
-Nathan Malicdem
I believe Holden acted like this because as a teenager at times you act as how you want to be perceived. Some act just like Holden, a tough guy, to make it seem as if they have power and are important people that can achieve many goals. By Holden acting this way I believe he is saying something about our society. Our society allows people to believe that they can be whoever they want to be no matter who they truly were. Hollywood then encourages that to occur because they create a variety of different characters that many relate to or want to become. He wanted to call Jane for many different reasons however for this situation, he wanted to demonstrate to her that he was not only sensitive like when they were children but he is also tough and is perfect for her. He would call her for the feeling that they could be together and he could be the person for her. He did call Sally but that was more of a vulnerable state than him attempting to be tough. Holden would not call another girl for that reason and only Jane because he wanted to change himself from who he was in the past and may also create a fantasy that since he was tough she would be with him and they would live a life together. He would want to be perfect for her because as he described her in the book it seemed as if he truly cared for her, so he would want to be the tough guy he imagined her to be with. -Eileen Gutierrez
ReplyDeleteHolden's action of pretending to be a tough guy has something to do with his feeling of isolation from society. He feels insecure, lonely, and alienated that his way of managing these emotions is by portraying a persona of a tough guy. He is in fact vulnerable and impotent among the society, especially among his peers and the environment that he was brought up with.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason why he is not fond of movies is because he feels that the scenarios portrayed are unrealistic and has a utopian setting - movies do not accurately capture the essence reality. Holden feels strongly against movies for he believes that they create false hope to those who are in unfortunate situations which led to his disappointment towards D.B.
Marie Manipud
In this novel, the author portrays Hollywood as a place full of “phonies”. Holden’s brother, D.B. moved to Hollywood to become a screenwriter, but he sold out and became a prostitute. I think this influences Holden’s vision of Hollywood. Holden insults actors, shows, and movies, saying that their acting is either too real or too fake to be good. Holden did not understand the message in any of the movies he watched. I think this is what J.D. Salinger is concerned about. He does not want to sign away the movie rights, and have the producers depict Holden in a different way then he intended. He does not want the wrong actors to play in the movie and ruin the message.
ReplyDeleteIn the scene where Holden gets beat up by the pimp, he consoles himself by imagining he is a tough guy. The movies have inspired him to this. The characters in the movies compel the audience to think they can do whatever they are doing. This is also why Salinger is concerned about giving away the rights to the movie. If Holden’s character makes one wrong move, he will inspire the audience to do the same.
6) We are well aware of Hollywood’s prominent influence in society. The media has the potential to make its consumer lose their grasp on reality. Salinger utilizes vivid imagery to demonstrate that Holden has lost his touch and is stuck in his mind, best encapsulated by his attitude towards movies, “The goddam movies...They can ruin you...". This insanity is evident in chapter 14 when Holden consoles himself by pretending to act like a tough guy character from a movie after the elevator pimp, Maurice physically assaulted him. He pretends to be someone to avoid accepting the reality of his situation. After his fight, Holden called Jane as another way to comfort himself. Jane, unlike almost every other girl; prostitutes, Sally Hayes, etc.…, was respected by Holden. Holden knew Jane on a deeper level and therefore was comfortable with the idea that her presence could alleviate his issues. This desire to surround himself with all of those that are pure is seen on page 98, where it is clear that Holden stopped his younger brother from going with him to shoot BB guns he did not want to rob Allie or his innocence. Holden mentions that Allie “was just a child.” To Holden children symbolize innocence, and Holden's rebellious actions of shooting a BB gun might expose Allie to a flawed world, where innocence is a quixotic value.
ReplyDeleteHolden admitted that he is yellow, which is a person who is afraid of violence but acts tough anyway. The scene where the elevator pimp beats him up and they way he pretended that he was shot, limping to the bathroom, shows the influence of movies over teenagers. The media is powerful and the standards it sets for people is impossible to reach. Of course, he would call Jane because Jane is very special to him. It is almost like he loves her, the only thing missing is for him to admit it. Every Romeo has their Juliet. If someone is dying, they would call onto someone dear to them; that is why Holden would not call on just some random girl.
ReplyDeleteHe did not want his brother to tag along playing BB guns because he was too young to be introduced to violence, and along with the idea of guns is action movies, and what is an action movie without something to do with love? He did not want his brother to see such world in a young age, he wanted to preserve his childhood. Maybe he did not want his brother to fall in love too soon just like how he did with Jane. Falling in love is a step closer to being a mature person, and knowing Holden, he does not like growing up. Therefore, he kept his brother from playing because he was just trying to preserve his innocence.
- Jemima Subaran
A common defense mechanism when one feels insecure or unsure of themselves is to only show their tough exterior and act as if it doesn't matter. Holden continuously gives off this idea that he is better than everyone, that he is tough and will never be the one to back down from a fight. Hollywood is this illusion, a deferral from reality. In the same way, Holden is an image of a deferral from reality in that he never wants to accept what is going on, or anything that has happened. Throughout the novel he walks through this dreamlike, unreal phase. Hollywood and New York aren't so different.
ReplyDelete