Dear AP students:
This is the final blog posting I will be making.
There is at least one more perspective from which
we will analyze novels--the one I want to address today is the class or Marxist
perspective (after Karl Marx--the father of Communism).
This perspective focuses on the economic elements
of the story and stresses those elements that show the differences in economic
classes of the characters, and any examples of worker exploitation.
What's interesting about Holden Caulfield is that he is a
rich preppy--he belongs to the upper class. He lives in a nice area of
Manhattan. he has parents and grandparents who provide him with money. He
travels through Manhattan possessing money as a warrior on a quest would
possess weapons. Yet, he questions the value of money. He seems to especially
call people who are rich "phonies". His brother must make money as a
screenwriter, yet he is a "phony". His father has enough money
to invest in failed Broadway plays--and I think Holden relishes the fact that
his investments fail. He mocks the idea of having money early in the book
when he sells his 90 dollar typewriter for 20 dollars.
Yet, unlike many people who scorn having money, he
doesn't seem to hold the lower class in any respectful embrace. He gets in a
fight with the elevator operator and the prostitute, and he makes fun of the
musicians and the working girls from Seattle. I guess he sort of respects the
nuns who are in the busines of collecting donations. But I don't think he comes
across as a hero of the downtrodden. He's no Robin Hood or do-gooder social
activist, right? I don't think he identifies with the lower
classes. He doesn't seek to change the system, he just makes fun of
it. Maybe that's what makes him a believable character--a truly mixed up
teen who doesn't pretend to have any answers.
What are we to think of this class/Marxist perspective regarding Holden
Caulfield? Can you come up with some scenes from the novel that might
highlight this perspective? Or using this perspective to analyze the
novel, do you spot some actions of Holden that you didn't necessarily notice
before?
Although Holden’s family is notably wealthy, he does not seem to hold his wealth in high regard, nor does he spend much of it himself. Of course, his family’s money goes towards the tuition of his education, and he is only able to galavant around New York because he has the money to do so. Holden also acknowledges that having more money than someone he encounters causes him great discomfort. This is expressed when he says, “For awhile when I was at Elkton Hills, I roomed with this boy, Dick Slagle, that had these very inexpensive suitcases. He used to keep them under the bed, instead of on the rack, so that nobody’d see them standing next to mine, It depressed the hell out of me, and I kept wanting to throw mine out or something, or even trade with him.” (pg. 121, par. 1). I believe that he feels this way because he doesn’t want to stick out as different, snobby, or even “phony”. In previous chapters, he so often attributed wealth or “showiness” to phonies.
ReplyDeleteWhile he may not be an advocate for the lower class, Holden is definitely moved by the actions of the nuns he meets. Despite the fact that they may not be the most attractive people, Holden believes they are kindhearted and intrinsically good, and thus starts a conversation with them. After their encounter, he states, “After they left, I started getting sorry that I’d only given them ten bucks for their collection.” According to google, $10.00 in the 1950’s was worth approximately $100.00 in modern day money, and so his donation was not small in the least, yet he still wishes he gave more. In that way, Holden can be seen as benevolent. However, while his contribution was generous, he still retained a considerable amount of money for himself, so it’s hard to argue that he is a completely selfless person.
Ultimately, Holden is a member of the upper class, but not a proud one. In the same way, he appreciates the efforts of good Samaritans, but cannot be considered a proponent for the lower class because of how he treats other characters within the novel, such as the prostitute he met. Similarly to other teens, however, Holden does not have a singular solid stance on the American socioeconomic system of the 1950’s. He does what he can to help others, but does not go above and beyond to bring others up to his level of wealth.
- Zuri Smith
Holden depicts nearly every adult as a phony in The Catcher in the Rye, reguardless of their financial situation. It seems like he simply can't identify with anyone of any financial background. That being said, I also think that he has a particular disliking towards whose who flaunt their material wealth. To me, what Holden says about the suitcases conveys not only that Holden doesn't want to be seen as wealthy, but also that he makes judgements about people based on wealth. This is seen when he encounters the two nuns, since he donates a generous amount of money, and makes a comment about their suitcases and what they were eating. "That depressed me. I hate it if I'm eating eggs and bacon or something and somebody else is only having toast and coffee" (page 143). Here, Holden feels guilty about his financial status.
ReplyDeleteI think Holden's perception of those who unabashedly display their wealth means to convey how many people in the United States were basking in the material world. Meanwhile, the devastation from World War II was being felt nearly everywhere else. Maybe that translates as Americans being self-centered, which I think is something Holden believes to be the epitome of phoniness. Additionally, I think Holden is proof that many Americans innately base some of their opinions of other people on wealth.
- Amy Lopez
I believe Holden's Marxist perspective stems from Salinger's personal views on the social class system. Salinger may have seen the capitalist system as detrimental, and expresses his beliefs through Holden. Holden makes remarks that the American lifestyle is boring on page 131 when he says, "It's full of phonies, and all you do is study so that you can learn to be smart enough to be able to buy a goddamn Cadillac one day." Holden is saying that the capitalist government America has set up has their citizens wanting needless items. Holden thinks of the American social classes as phony on page 108 when he explains that, "The day after I put mine under the bed, he took them out and put them back on the rack. The reason he did it...was because he wanted people to think my bags were his." Holden makes fun of his roommate because he is so caught up in what others think, and it can be inferred that that is how Holden views the "phony" social classes. Although Salinger uses Holden to express some Marxist point of views, I do not believe he is a Marxist himself. What we do know about him is that he denies material possessions and led quite a simple life. I also find it interesting how Holden is quite indifferent as a teen with a lot of money. I can see in today's society through music, television, and social media how having a lot of money is placed in high regards. For Holden, money may have been the source of his loneliness and alienation. Marxist views do not place a high value on money, so this may have been another way Salinger portrayed his Marxism views in America.
ReplyDelete-Justin Bleisch
I had never heard of the “Marxist Perspective” prior to reading this blog post; however I have contemplated the concept of economic statuses and how they play a role in a novel. For example, in the play, A Raisin in the Sun, the main characters come from a low-income family where money is treasured and is a main focus on the tale. Money becomes a conflict in the story because of what it does to people. Even as teenagers, we understand the power and influence money can have on our decisions.
ReplyDeleteIn a similar way, I believe Holden has an adequate understanding of money and social standing, but refuses to accept that notion because he would like to in vision himself standing above it. He calls the rich “phonies”. He calls his brother a “phony”. He disrespects the working women he dances with. Holden commonly associates your social standing/income or wealth with how people “should” or “do” act. I don’t think it is fair for him to do this, yet he does it anyways. Holden’s experience with the nun is an interesting one. I assume Holden knew the nuns are Catholic, but then he goes on to reveal that he thinks “Catholics are always trying to find out if you're a Catholic.” The entire scene I felt like Holden was holding back his real feelings towards the nuns: “the nuns have good intentions, but have unusual beliefs.” I have found that Holden is often very conflicted in may situatons. Also, I notice that he tends to go against what he is actually thinking/believes, and does what is “right”. I am left confused when he later regrets his decision to give so “little” to the women.
-Tanner Claudio
Money, through Holden's experience, is not necessarily perceived as a form of power, but more as a an item of survival and commodity. The discomfort that he experiences when realizing he has more than others is not necessarily Marxist, it more shows that he does not like to fall into the phony category that he so much despises. The reason that his thought isn't very communist is because he never says that others should give their wealth to the less fortunate, but rather when explaining the suitcase situation expresses "It depressed the hell out of me, and I kept wanting to throw mine out or something, or even trade with him.” (pg. 121). I liked his point of view regarding money because when he speaks of education he also speaks of how people are driven by material things, they spend money on education so that one day they can buy a nice Cadillac. He does criticize his capitalist society ( A society that is still mirrored today) but does not provide his idea of a solution. Holden is a very privileged individual, in this time period it would seem almost imminent for him to be a phony snob much like everyone that he criticizes, but he appears to be an anomaly in every way shape and form. The way he is portrayed socially is out-of-era like yet does highlight very well the issue of well marked social distinctions.
ReplyDelete-Rodrigo Blanco
Now that I recall the book in the Marxist point of view, I do seem to remember some points that Holden holds negative views towards American capitalistic society. One of the main ones is that Holden sees anything that glorifies a lifestyle which is not real to the problems society is facing as “phony”. We see this when Holden speaks about how he is against Hollywood, and even dislikes the fact that his brother is a screenwriter. Another major point in the book that sticks out to me now thinking back is, as Justin pointed out, when Holden talked about what, in his opinion, is a messed up mentality related to the “American Dream”. Holden is talking to Sally about, again, how “phony” boy’s schools are. He claims that the only reason those individuals would even so much as strive to learn is to become successful and wealthy, or as Holden put it, to “buy a goddam Cadillac someday”. Holden sees the problems that come with a generation of individuals that do not learn to enrich their minds, but learn in the hopes of one day becoming rich. Once again, I believe that the views of J.D. Salinger in parts of the book such as this address the societal problems that faced (and are facing) the United States. Not only does capitalism promote the culture of “phonies” so despised by Holden, but it also pressures the younger individuals of the generation to live up to a certain standard. It pressures them to be somebody who is rich in wealth, but not rich in culture. Perhaps this is another reason that Holden hates Hollywood. Perhaps Holden saw that the movies of that time, which portrayed men who were rich and successful as being attractive and sought after, put a pressure on the teens his age to be someone whose’ happiness came from material objects, hence, the Cadillac. Holden does not pay much mind to such social pressures, and in fact, would rather not have to deal with them at all. Holden wants to run away for the last half of the book. He wants to run away to somewhere where he wouldn’t have to deal with the pressures of learning with the sole goal of earning.
ReplyDelete-Xavier Sanchez
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DeleteI agree with the notion that Holden mentally suffers from an inability to identify with one group one group. This can be seen in his distaste of the wealthy class. And his hate for how they only concern themselves with preserving their wealth. While the lower classes sole concern seemed to be rising up the social classes. Despite the fact he hates the system he cannot avoid the fact that his dad is an extremely successful lawyer. Lawyers are universally hated by all people and seem to perfectly embody everything wrong with capitalism.
DeleteThis can be seen in how Lawyers simply exploit the "vulnerable"they are sworn to aid and make tons of money in the process. Given this Holden cannot simply avoid the fact that he lives a privileged life. It is because he can't identify with either upper-class or the lower-class. That he wishes to run away a secluded life in the mountains. It is so that he limits interactions with people like the Headmaster at Pencey Prep. or people in lower social and financial classes.
Holden Caulfield is evident to have a "special" perspective on wealthy or non-wealthy people he comes across throughout the novel who he depicts as "phonies". No matter who Holden comes across it appears that not one person can not be perceived as creating a depression in Holden's mind or creating a phony persona. With the main protagonist being proven wealthy as his grandmother and parents provide for him, money appears to be nothing more than a simple material in Holden's mindset as his investments can be debatable. One scene in particular that reveals this perspective of Marxism on Holden Caulfield is when he begins to feel depressed after he hangs the prostitutes belongings and begins to change his actions towards the prostitute later on in the night. Yet when he comes across Lillian Simmons at Ernie's in Greenwich Village he also depicts Lillian and the gentlemen in the Navy suit as phonies. In all Holden Caulfield is a wealthy young man who judges everyone he comes across on meanwhile dabbling with their financial situations and social hierarchy.
ReplyDelete-Robert Matawaran
Holden merely refers to the upper class as phony, while he is hypercritical of lower class workers. In page 69 Holden is describing his hotel's bellboy. Not only does he mock the bellboy's physical appearance, but also his intellectual abilities. Holden expresses that being a bell boy is a "gorgeous job for a guy around sixty-five years old. Carrying people's suitcases and waiting for a tip. I suppose he wasn't too intelligent or anything". Holden fails to acknowledge his own privileges. Like Mr. Rodriguez said, Holden is a rich preppy boy. What can Holden possibly know about working from the bottom? The bellboy may be smarter than him. He just did no have the same educational opportunities as Holden. The belief that individuals working lower class jobs are uneducated is still widely accepted to this day.
ReplyDeleteLike I mentioned earlier, Holden does not acknowledge his economic privileges. When he is involved in a fight with Maurice and Sunny, the elevator operator and the prostitute, Maurice confronts Holden about his economic status. In page 114 Maurice threatened Holden by asking "want your parents to know you spent the night with a whore? High class kid like you?". I assumed Holden would react to these accusations by reflecting upon his actions and stop being judgemental.
-Ingrid Reyes
Holden Caulfield does not root from the Marxist perspective. Although it may seem as if he would look forward to a classless society with less "phonies" and equal treatment, Caulfield is far from the ideal Marxist man. He only scorns the upper class because of the "phony acts" they put on as a result of having money. He does not actually hate the upper class alone. He only had a bitter attitude towards the prostitute and his manager because of the way they abused him. Holden may hate a lot of people but he is just an overall bitter person. He favored the charitable nuns, because he liked talking to them. Holden was into books and one of the nuns was an English teacher. The fact that Holden is sort of an atheist does not necessarily make Holden a Marxist, because Marxists are totally against religion. Holden actually liked the nuns and his sister, both members of the Catholic church. His hate towards the world should not imply that he supports Marxism. He even wanted to live alone in a forest out West, and most Marxists favor the idea of living cooperatively in a Utopian society. Holden would totally hate a Utopian society.
ReplyDelete-Risvi Tareq
Throughout the novel, I noticed that Holden felt uncomfortable around those less economically privileged than him. As my peers have correctly identified, Holden comes from a wealthy family, which enables him to have the luxury of attending multiple boarding schools despite his lack of desire to learn, and to live a lavish lifestyle. In a previous post, we analyzed the passage in which Holden discusses the different types of suitcases. Holden also confesses that he prefers rooming with those who have expensive suitcases like him, such as Stradlater, because at least they did not have to feel awkward about the difference in suitcase. In other words, they did not have to feel uncomfortable about the gap in wealth, like he did when he shared a room with the boy with inexpensive suitcases, Dick Slagle. Similarly, Holden is slightly uncomfortable and takes pity on the the nuns he meets over breakfast. He does donate ten dollars, a considerable sum of money at the time, suggesting that he is kind and chairitable. However, it is apparent that Holden is uncomfortable around those less economically fortunate than him.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Holden often acts as though he is superior to others, I never felt that this was because he felt entitled because of his money. Holden constantly criticizes those around him, but never because they appeared poor. I do think it is important consider his economic privileges, however. During the 1950s,
a teen who did not come from an affluent family would not be able to just wander around New York for a few days. Teenage boys in lower economic classes would be expected to have jobs, and provide for the family, and many of them would not have the privilege of completing high school.
-Lilliana Conradi
To me, throughout the novel I felt as though Holden disregarded the fact he has money. He would call his class mates rich and elaborate about what they had, seeming to avoid talking about his home life, what his parents did or that he to was very wealthy. its almost as if his wealth is what connects him to the people he calls phony and the world he deems as fake. And to separate himself, Holden does not take and extra time commenting on his own wealth. A scene in the play which before this I had not seen as very important was when
ReplyDeleteHolden was back at his boarding school ,the nigh he left. At the time i felt he sold his 90 dollar typewriter due to the fact that he was just trying to leave and had no time to negotiate. Upon further review I feel as though it was a symbol of Holden's disregard for money.As for the Marxist perspective regarding Holden, i doubt any connection. Holden does not envy, or identify the rich, nor does he criticize or feel bad for the poor. He simply finds faults in everyone, no matter what your economic class. A truly confused teenage boy, Holden seems to want to identify himself, by himself, not based on his money, or his friends, or his school. He strives for independence and to move past his present, to grow up, as can be seen throughout the novel as he pretends he's older, and fakes his name, all symbol of the theme, self identity.
-Janelle Stradford
I think this topic is a bit more difficult to analyze in regard to Holden. Being that he refuses to acknowledge his sense of wealth and the privileges that go along with it, all the while ignoring the struggles of the lower class. When Holden is introduced to Sunny, the prostitute, he immediately becomes uncomfortable. While he denotes it as just a moment of him not feeling 'sexy' I believe it may spiral into the realm of him not knowing how to communicate with people not like him, i.e. wealth, status, privilege. He begins to question Sunny, and while he refuses to have sex with her, he still offers to pay her. At some points I do believe Holden has the intention of helping people but he can not completely sympathize with the bouts that they endure. In this same situation, Sunny heightens the prices of their interaction and he refuses to pay her more regardless of her clearly being in a financial bind, why else would anyone consider prostitution. This shows me that while he still pays her the initial price Holden still is unable to identify with her struggles or consider why she would heighten the price because in his world he isn't faced with problems like hers. There are many situations where it is clear that Holden holds a lack of value for money, which I believe is due to the wealth of his family. For instance, the situation regarding the suitcases or when he'd begun to run low on money and rather than saving what he has he skips the last of his change across the water.
ReplyDeleteHolden like many teens are confused and living in the now. At times we do not understand what we do not endure and that is clearly the case with Holden. While he strays away from bias, and is equally as judgmental despite class, he is unable to connect on a deeper level because he has never dealt with the hard times of other people. Identity is a crucial factor in the life of Holden and as yet, it seems he is unable to really pinpoint who he is.
-Jayla Hudson
Elements of class differences can be seen in “The Catcher in the Rye.” Holden comes from a wealthy family, however, he considers himself non-materialistic. This is stated frankly when he says, “Some guys spend days looking for something they lost. I never seem to have anything that if I lost it I’d care too much.” He later says after he believes that he didn’t donate enough money to nuns, “Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.” Holden doesn’t see the value or importance of money, but he has never lived without it. This is evident in his immense spending on cabs, drinks, and more in such a small amount of time. He spent the same amount of money that people below in a lower class might’ve earned in a long time. His lack of knowledge on wealth can also be seen when he plans to move across the country and have a home without even considering a job. Finally, the elements of class struggle can be seen in Holden’s knowledge of those suffering with less money than him. However, he lives amongst the wealthy and even wastes his parent’s money on expensive prep schools that he intentionally expels himself from. Holden is naïve and hypocritically calls the wealthy “phony” when he is wealthy and spends a great deal of money.
ReplyDeleteJ.D. Salinger was clever in picking the big city for his setting in this novel. The reason I believe he does so is to narrow down the focus on Holden's feelings himself rather than the many outside details of the bustling city. New York is one of the many things Holden spends time criticizing, in fact he spends a whole paragraph ranting on how much he hates the streets, the people and the overall environment while on his date with Sally Hayes. Which within the same conversation is where the sudden idea of moving to Vermont and Massachusetts emerges. Note that these two places are eminently remote compared to a big city like New York. Which I believe relates to the fact that Holden craves alone time and peace, yet he wants Sally's company, and even the idea of children comes up, to not feel completely lonely. One of the other reasons Salinger might have chosen this particular setting was because of the notorious practice of prostitution within the streets, as well as the many bars found throughout every corner. Holden attempts to hide his loneliness and aides his long for human interaction in the night life as he converses with a plethora of people; nuns, a piano player, 3 ladies he wanted to dance with, a couple prostitutes, and some old friends. However most really did seem interested in carrying a conversation any longer than a couple minutes as they were what Holden would refer to as "phonies" or "morons". It is obvious Holden is indecisive as to which he craves more, human relationship and bond or time for himself with the right people, and the various trivial factors Salinger uses throughout the novel are clever as they add up to emphasize Holden's thoughts and feelings of the world surrounding him.
ReplyDeleteJ.D. Salinger was clever in picking the big city for his setting in this novel. The reason I believe he does so is to narrow down the focus on Holden's feelings himself rather than the many outside details of the bustling city. New York is one of the many things Holden spends time criticizing, in fact he spends a whole paragraph ranting on how much he hates the streets, the people and the overall environment while on his date with Sally Hayes. Which within the same conversation is where the sudden idea of moving to Vermont and Massachusetts emerges. Note that these two places are eminently remote compared to a big city like New York. Which I believe relates to the fact that Holden craves alone time and peace, yet he wants Sally's company, and even the idea of children comes up, to not feel completely lonely. One of the other reasons Salinger might have chosen this particular setting was because of the notorious practice of prostitution within the streets, as well as the many bars found throughout every corner. Holden attempts to hide his loneliness and aides his long for human interaction in the night life as he converses with a plethora of people; nuns, a piano player, 3 ladies he wanted to dance with, a couple prostitutes, and some old friends. However most really did seem interested in carrying a conversation any longer than a couple minutes as they were what Holden would refer to as "phonies" or "morons". It is obvious Holden is indecisive as to which he craves more, human relationship and bond or time for himself with the right people, and the various trivial factors Salinger uses throughout the novel are clever as they add up to emphasize Holden's thoughts and feelings of the world surrounding him.
ReplyDeleteBy looking at the book through a Marxist perspective, it can be seen that although Holden is extremely well-off, he chooses not to associate himself with the upper-class nor support the lower-class, seeing the wealthy (like actors) as fake, or "phony", and the less privileged as impossible to maintain a relationship with (the suitcase fallout with Slagle).
ReplyDeleteThis false identity as a "middleman" emphasizes Holden's resentment of these social classes, as he points out the intricacies of human behavior based on fortune. He realizes that class insecurity is what hinders cross-class relationships, one example being his suitcase fiasco with Dick Slagle, as mentioned by Zuri.
However, Holden believes that he fails to classify with either standing because he is aware of the aforementioned intricacies; yet, wealth determines status in the Marxist perspective, and it is not something Holden can quite run away from.
-Andre Yee
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ReplyDeleteHolden does come from a wealthy family, but he does not like it. He criticizes people with money that show off (like the guys that own cars and nice clothes) . He had a lot of money when he left school but he did not care about that, and he does not like to show off his money.
ReplyDeleteHe is a generous person, an example is when he offered the nuns to pay for their breakfast, and even when they did not accept he still gave them some money.
Also, he does not like people that make a big deal about how wealthy a person is. Holden criticized a former roomate because that roomate tried hiding his suitcases because they were cheaper than Holden's.
Holden knows his family is wealthy, but he is also generous.
It is evident that there is a barrier with the social classes for Holden. With the suitcase issue in chapter 15 we learn he does have a set standard for normal attire. With him being privileged in being in the upper class one would think he is one lucky guy. However we quickly learn that Holden has no value whatsoever for money and would rather spend all his "dough" than save it. He does indeed mock the value of money when he undersells his type writer and when he tells us how his mom always gets on his case about never collecting his change after he pays. Now I am aware he gets in a fight with the elevator operator and the prostitute over money. However the fight entailed him being robbed five dollars and paying extra for something that he was lied about, not about the possession of money. Holden may be rich and I do believe he is embarrassed because of that. By him standing out financially, I believe the only way for him to blend in like everyone else, is to waste all his money so he can be identical just like his mates.
ReplyDelete-Dennis O'Brien (DJ)
I agree and disagree with DJ. I don't believe Holden wastes money, but he is actually smart with money. Holden generously pays a donation to the nuns knowing he doesn't have a lot of cash. This action sets Holden apart from his father who wastes money on failed Broadway productions continuously. However, Holden knows the value of his donation which is beyond the basic item of money. He also refuses to take Phoebe's money knowing that she raised that amount herself. But he also knows he will need a few bucks to survive a few nights. I also don't necessarily view the fight between Holden and Maurice as a quarrel about money, but more as a dispute over miscommunication. I believe Holden was being stubborn about giving Sunny her money because he believes he was right. I also agree with DJ that in order for Holden to blend into society is for him to spend huge amounts of money on meaningless purchases. But because Holden refuses to look like a "phony" he treats his money with a higher respect.
Delete- Maia Magno
Holden Caulfield is a very money conscious person. While making his journey throughout New York, he spends his money in various ways on frivolous things. During his encounter with the prostitute he values her time to listen to his thoughts as equivalent to "giving her the time"; however, we see that he is extremely possessive over the extra five dollars being charged to him. Holden also feels insulted in the Lavender Room when the three ladies left him with the bill. He claims that had they offered to pay he still would have declined, but that they should have at least made an attempt to pay. The check was a total of thirteen dollars, an amount he claimed he would have graciously paid had he not been made aware of the women's plans during their stay in New York.
ReplyDeleteHolden does not seem to begrudge people with money or without it, but how they treat it. He respects and admires the nuns for using whatever money they earn to benefit the community; where as he despises the elevator boy and prostitute because they tried to scam him. Like any normal person, Caulfield has a strong sense of right and wrong. According to his moral code, money should be spent wisely on things that will pay off in the long run. However, Holden burns through his own money rather quickly. He comes from a wealthy family; therefore, the stereotype is that he must not completely understand the value of a dollar. At least it doesn't seem that way until innocent Phoebe loans him her Christmas dough. He cries for the generosity of his sister and the situation he had gotten himself into.
With all of his experiences with both the upper and lower classes, Holden chooses not to associate with either one of them. His middle man position fails to cloak his thorough disgust with the practices of both. The rich are too fake without truly revealing their personalities in case they reveal a weakness, and the poor cannot maintain relationships with the well-off because of their jealousy. Looking at the novel from this perspective it seems that Holden, like Marx, views the upper-class as the source of all problems.
I don’t think that Holden has much of a problem with the actual amount of money people make, but the way they choose to flaunt their money. When talking about suitcases, he expresses his disgust with Dick Slangle because after Holden hid his Mark Cross suitcases, Slangle “took them out and out them back on the rack” because he wanted people to think they were his bags (108). Earlier in this passage he does reveal that he hates seeing people with inexpensive suitcases, but it is because of this experience that he upholds that opinion. I think Holden cares how much money people make, rather how they choose to live their life based on their status. He criticizes the prostitute because she pretends to be someone she is not. When describing her undressing in the room he mentions how he even felt bad when he was hanging up because he imagined “her going in a store and buying it, and nobody in the store knowing she was a prostitute and all” (96). He often feels depressed when he sees those who are less fortunate but I do not believe that because he has money, he earns some sense of entitlement over them.
ReplyDelete-Renee Navarro
Holden Caulfield does come from a wealthy family, however he rarely decides to use this to his advantage. During the novel, Holden travels around the streets of New York, to clubs, bars, and movie theaters. For example, instead of mainly staying in a motel or hotel, Holden stays just about anywhere after he leaves Pencey. He stays at hotel and even so rarely makes himself out to be one of the rich and wealthy. He wants to keep a low profile so does not attract to much attention.
ReplyDeleteHolden also expresses his disgust toward those who act snobbish and/or rude toward him. He expresses this disgust toward three women in the Lavender Room, after they start giggling at him, he calls them ugly. He later calls them morons and idiots.
However, Holden does have an appreciate what he has and is somewhat kind to those of middle and lower class stature. For example, when he meets the two nuns eating breakfast, eating toast and coffee while Holden eats eggs and bacon. Holden approaches the nuns and offers money to them and gives them $10. The nuns thank him for his generosity, but even after leaving the nuns, Holden still thinks he should have donated more money. Even though Holden has shown he is a hypocrite and all he does is talk behind peoples backs, Holden still has a conscience. I believe that Holden Caulfield is not Marxist and actually prefers to be associated as a normal middle class man instead of identifying with the rich.
After reading this post, I have formulated some opinions on this perspective of the novel. First, I do not think that Holden dislikes those who are less fortunate than him, he himself was struggling with money while he was in New York. However, this does not stop him from making fun of the lower classes, but then again, he does make fun of everything. For example, he criticized the nuns and his old roommate with the suitcases incident. After considering this, I think that Holden does not want to acknowledge the fact that he is wealthy and that he is privileged. Instead, he makes fun of those who are also wealthy and privileged by calling them phonies. When he does this, it seems as if he is taking the shame off of himself in that he does not want other people to criticize him for being wealthy.
ReplyDelete-Daniela Navarro
When I dove into Catcher in the Rye, my first initial thought was that Holden's perspective was negative and cynical. However, after reading further, I found that his perspective was quite hypocritical. For instance, he claims that everyone one else is phony, yet he, himself, has lied to the extent that he could be considered just as "phony" as the rest. We see this when he lies to a woman on the train. Also, when he lies about his age to the prostitute, that he loved Sally, and that he wanted her to leave New York with him. Holden even admitted that he was a good liar. He is so capable of lying that he is able to convince himself of his own lies. I think that Holden is desperate to set himself apart from the world that he was born into. Yet, he makes fun of both the wealthy and lower class. I think that instead of criticizing himself, he finds it easier to criticize others.
ReplyDelete-Hannah McElmoyl
As I was reading my peers comments I realized a very important detail, Holden doesn't make a big deal about how wealthy his family is. Since the beginning of the novel he showed us that he went to Pencey Prep, a high rank pay school,and to be able to go to a school like that you must have a sufficient amount of money. Apart from not truly acknowledging his economic status , he critiques others with less, more ,and those who strive for more economic stability. He says that they are "phonies" because of their want for money. Just like how he acknowledged that Sally's mom would not be asking for donations to help others, so I felt that the fact of charity was another major component in this situation.
ReplyDelete-Barbara Ramirez
From a Marxist perspective this novel could easily point out how the rich are quick to flaunt and waste their money without regret. Money never seems to be a huge problem or barrier to Holden, and even though to does run low halfway throughout the story, he does not panic about it as a less financially fortunate character would. As we've pointed out before, it's ironic that Holden calls so many others phonies when he's quite the phony himself. His quick hand to spend money may be part of his desire to appear as such an adult, but it wouldn't be entirely incorrect to say that it's not partially due to his family's socioeconomic status. Maybe this novel is meant to show how the rich are bound to face more misfortunes, but this would make the reader trust Holden as a narrator even less. I agree that he doesn't identify with the lower class, but at the same time he doesn't identify with the upper class either. His making fun of the system is what I believe to be the main theme of the novel. Holden may seem like a phony, but he does point out a lot of issues with his society, specifically within the city and among the pool of students from Pencey and other prep schools. For example, at one point Holden recalls the time when a group of students at Pencey bullied someone so much that that person commited suicide. This being said, Salinger may have been attempting to point out issues in the society that he had been living it.
ReplyDeleteBrowsing through the other responses, many fellow classmates have addressed the concept of the suitcases. Most of the statements talk about how Holden is less interested in the wealth gap as he is in the display of wealth. He does talk about how uncomfortable he feels seeing the disparity of wealth, especially by looking at the different suitcases the characters have. But what is especially important is how one roommate, Dick Slagle, calls Holden's materials "bourgeois". The bourgeoisie, in Marxism, is a negative term referring to the upper classes. Holden mentions that, at first, he did not care that he was being called "bourgeois". However, he realized that Dick was calling everything he owned was bourgeois. Holden was from an upper class family, but Holden was also discontent with his upbringing. In other words, Holden was a part of the bourgeoisie, but it was clear that he did not want to be a part of it, as he felt the rich were self-interested.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, he talks about how he was glad the nuns did not try to ask if he was Catholic. This may allude to the division of classes. Holden was against the idea of people getting divided because of who they were. In this case, he was worried the nuns would shun him for not being religious. This is important because it reveals how Holden wants people to socialize without the need to disclose where one belongs. In the end, Holden, despite coming from a rich family, wanted society to ignore class differences and promote equality.
-Maxwell Bauer
When I relate the Marxist perspective to this book and Holden, I refer to the part where Holden's roommate calls him Bourgeoisie. Bourgeoisie is the term for the upper class in the Marxist society. The many luxuries Holden has supports his attitude towards the use and his value of money. Holden obviously hates the upper class snobs, which include himself, but doesn't treat the lower class well either. I believe Holden as a rebellious teen despises the system in which people are characterized. Referring to Holden's discussion with Sally he wishes to escape west and find work and have his own cabin where he can live with her. In moving west he believes the society in New York will be left.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the Marxist perspective in the novel are Salingers own views on the class system. As we discussed before that Salinger created Holden as a better character of himself, Salinger expresses his own beliefs through Holden. These beliefs are that the American system is dull. These Marxist views show economic statuses and how money isn't everything.
ReplyDelete-Alexia L. Estrella
DeleteHolden definitely humiliates the economic system in the United States. He does not side with a communist perspective or a capitalist one, but instead he notices how wealthy people have money to waste and he calls them "phonies" , but yet aside from the nuns, he does not seem to genuinely appreciate the lower class either. He is in the middle and I think that J.D Sanlinger does a great job in offering us this character who comes from a high class family, and has money to spend in irrelevant adventures, but yet is not proud to be that wealthy.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to witness this perspective that incorporates Marxist ideals but also contradicts them. Holden offers part of this perspective as he says that wealthy people are "phonies" and values people like the nuns, that are not exactly wealthy, but both have equal lives. These thoughts imply he kind of supports the equal system under communism, a Karl Marx ideal.
However, when he makes simple remarks like the one about the suitcases, saying a person with a nicer suitcase cannot be friends with someone that has a less "higher class" suitcase, it is almost as if he believes in the social class differences. Both remarks could have been to mock Marxism and capitalism, but regardless Holden presents himself as an individual that stands in the middle. He does not support any and frankly he humiliates the differences.
I primarily believe that he thinks this way because to me he is an out-of-place, rebel teenager, who will not only not conform to what is being asked of him, but also will not fall to believe in one set of ideals.
I did not notice this before, and I thought Holden was just a character that complained about everything and simply was annoyed with life. Now reflecting on a deeper level what his attitude throughout the book implies, I come to believe the author sets Holden up as the character he is not to communicate why one way of living is better than the other, but to point out the flaws of the most common social and economic systems in the world. I understand this now, reading the novel with the purpose of catching those small hidden references, and analyzing what they could mean.
I personally agree with what some of my peers have mentioned. We know that Holden Caulfield comes from a family that has good income, his dad is a lawyer, and Holden studies in a prep school. Even though Holden has money he is not one of those people that show it off. He feels sorry for those that do not have as much as he does for example the cheap suitcases that his friend at Pencey had. A possible reason why Holden doesn't show off his money might be because people will look at him differently. Holden believes that people build relationships based on what they see and that's why he states that "Catholics are always trying to find out if others are Catholics". Holden is different he has money and he is not cocky, he tries to help others out whenever he can for example when he saw the nuns asking for donations, Holden gave them money and after they leave he reflects and mentions "I started getting sorry that I'd only given them ten bucks for their collection". Ten bucks at that time was a lot of money, and he realizes that he could've given more. That just comes to show that he was willing to help and contribute to other's necessities. However he only helped when asked he did not go beyond to make sure all those in need where in a good position economically.
ReplyDeleteAfter applying this new perspective to the novel, some actions that Holden takes do suggest economic themes. While Salinger implies these themes, he does not lean heavily towards the Marxists side. He uses this rebellious teen who does not conform to anything to attack the certain defects of the post-World War II American society. Before World War II, America was struggling through its Great Depression and the war effort soured the nation straight out of it. For instance, in chapter 18 Holden demonstrates how his brother, D.B., hated the war so much, but then goes on to pretend it didn't happen and goes on to become a screenwriter. Similarly, Salinger wanted to expose this mindset of the United States. The nation was celebrating its elevation to the globe's top superpower but it was trying arduously to ignore that the U.S. created the most dangerous and destructive weapon at the time. Salinger's references are definitely there, like how Allie died of leukemia, a disease commonly associated with atomic bomb radiation.
ReplyDelete-Alan Contreras
From a Marxist perspective, you can see that Holden isn't your average Joe. He is obviously wealthy, and although he has a lot of money, he doesn't seem to let that classify him. The kid went to prep school,and a lot of them at that. He sees possession of money as another empty void that should be filled with happiness but isn't. That's probably why he doesn't speak to favorably of the rich. Even in the upper class, there's classification based on looks. When Holden recounts the dean from his previous prep school, Elkton Hills, he says that if a pair of rich parents that looked nice and swell came up to him, he'd be in deep conversation with them genuinely. But any other ordinary pair of rich folks simply received a plastered smile and fake hellos. Holden is very observant, and sees these things that not many of his peers notice, which shapes his views on momey. As Ana mentioned, he doesn't necessarily associate with one class, but rather points out the flaws in each economic system.
ReplyDeleteI agree with my peers views of The Catcher in the Rye, from a Marxist perspective. I think that Holden is more of an outsider from the whole idea of social classes. He does constantly criticize those who are wealthy even though he attends Pency and his father who earns an abundant amount as a lawyer. It is not different for people of a lower class since Holden still criticizes them. Surprisingly, he respects the nuns who are asking for donations, it makes me think that Holden judges too quickly about anyone rather then getting to know the person like he did with the nuns. Holden makes it clear that he extremely dislikes the upper class, even if he is apart of it. I think that the reason is because he truly knows how rich people are. For example, he describes his peers at Pency to be phonies and full of themselves.
ReplyDelete-Paulina Martinez
DeleteI agree my peers on their view of The Catcher in the Rye, coming from a Marxist mindset. Holdem is not really a person who is involved with the whole social classes, yet he does covers parts of it when he talks about the suitcases, where it is evident that he is merely mocking them. As Paulina Martinez said, he finds great respect and admiration for the nuns who are asking for donations and how he has a great dislike for the upper class, which is pretty noticeable through out the whole story.
ReplyDelete-Jorge Tejeda
I agree with my peers from a Marxist perspective because Holden portrays himself as an outsider in comparison to being social. In my opinion, I think he is wealthy, but he chooses not to show it off because he's scared how other people will portray him.
ReplyDelete