Dear Eagles:
In addition to looking at this novel from a
feminist perspective, or from the hero's journey perspective, we can look from
the psychological perspective to arrive at a better understanding of the themes
of a novel.
In doing so, we can look at Holden's obsession with
death. First, there is his natural obsession with the death of Allie.
This plays a central role in the novel, and this traumatizing event can be seen
as the root of his problems. Then there's the passages on pages 154-155
in which he talks about how everyone would react to his death, and his own
feelings about dying, in light of Allie's death. He imagines
"jerks" coming to his funeral. He also says "I hope to hell when
I do die somebody has enough sense to just dump me in a river or
something." Making another analogy to the Shakespeare play Hamlet,
the character of Hamlet contemplates suicide in his famous "To be or not
to be " soliloquy, but he chooses not to commit suicide because he is
afraid of what comes after death--"the great unknown." Does
Holden contemplate suicide in this passage, and if so does he choose not to die
because he doesn't like how the jerks or phonies will attend his funeral, or
how his mother might react? Or is he not seriously contemplating
suicide at all? Perhaps Salinger was making an analogy to Mark Twain's
famous character of Tom Sawyer, who got to attend his own funeral when people
thought he had died?
There's also that passage on pages 170-171 where he
discusses the suicide of one of his classmates at Elkton Hills--James Castle.
The kid was not a friend of Holden's, but he recalls the kid because he had
borrowed his turtleneck.
I once read that every novel has a ghost story included...meaning, a novel's main character is usually haunted by a ghost or a death that occurred earlier in his/her life? This ghost story is what consciously/subconsciously drives the main character. Is that true in this novel?
What other psychological aspects can we draw upon to help understand Holden
Caulfield? Or is this enough?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI never really characterized Holden as the suicidal type, considering his abundance of confidence(and pretentious behavior); however I believe that the protagonist might have given a thought or two to committing suicide due to his lack of real relationships with his peers. Holden never really expresses any interest in friendship with other boys at Pencey, and rarely sees his family, allowing for emptiness to develop within the character. As Holden continues on through the story in such a lonely phase, I've noticed that his attitude towards welcoming death changes when he visits his sister, Phoebe. I believe that Phoebe not only takes Holden's mind off of death, but also gives him something to live for, look forward to everyday, and become an example for. In this sense, Holden is stepping up to be the older brother that his family had in Allie before he died. Just as death plays a major aspect in the novel, so does the importance of family - and is Holden's main line of defense in battling his suicidal contemplation.
ReplyDelete-Savannah Mojica
I agree with Savannah in that Holden likely isn't suicidal. I believe Holden is mindful of the effects that suicide would have on his family, resulting in his decision to no longer contemplate it. The main reason Holden thinks about death is likely Allie. He considers the fact that Allie remains frozen as a child as a result of his death, something that perhaps made death more appealing. However, Holden recognizes the effects Allie's death had on him and his family and eventually decided against it. I can in turn conclude that Holden is likely suffering from depression, but possesses awareness towards the effects suicide will have on others.
DeleteIn my opinion Holden's thoughts indicate a struggle with depression. There are many situations in the novel, where Holden reveals to readers a feeling of deep sadness. It seems that the depression is thoughtless and started by a series of events. An example can be when he explains his feeling towards Elkton Hills headmaster's phony discussion. Holden states, "It make me so depressed I go crazy" (Salinger 19). This reveals that he is prone to an emotional overreaction and his thoughts are depressive. Which then concludes his emotions cannot indicate usual teenage behavior. he then later contemplates committing suicide a couple of times.
ReplyDelete-Carola Cabral
J.D. Salinger reveals Holden’s depression due to many unfortunate events. Allie’s early death opens the door to Holden’s cynical and judgmental views of the world. This correlates to the theme alienation. Holden isolates himself from others and puts himself in solitude. I viewed this as him hiding away in order to avoid the complexities of life. In a way, this shines light on Holden’s inner struggle with not just simply himself, but with growing up as well. As others have said, I do not believe that Holden is suicidal. Admittedly, I did think he was at first, but with further analysis, his depressive thoughts originated from deaths of ones close to him in which would generally make anyone feel the same when losing someone. It is easy to see that Holden's fears (“the great unknown”, growing up, change) contribute to his depression and seemingly “suicidal” thoughts. However, his fears are not uncommon among people in which we all face somehow, someday.
ReplyDelete-Hannah McElmoyl
I, like the others that have commented on this post, do not believe Holden is suicidal. After reading his thoughts on nuclear war and his eagerness to volunteer to sit on top of a nuclear bomb, I did consider it for a while. But these pages allowed me to realize that it isn’t the act of dying that he is obsessed with, rather the dishonesty displayed by other people when someone dies. He suggests that they will “lay flowers on his stomach,” not to commend those who have passed but instead use the empty gesture to feel better about themselves.
ReplyDeleteAfter picturing his own funeral, a sense of maturity washes over him and forces him to think about other people instead of just himself. The biggest sign of this surge of maturity is when he realizes he does not want to leave Phoebe. He knows that losing Phoebe would be the worst situation possible and because of this fear, he goes and visits her. The fear and emotions tied into death allow Holden to return home and embrace some sort of maturation that is pretty much nonexistent until this point in the novel.
Other than that, Holden’s psychological problems are identified through his depressing inner thoughts, aggressive cynicism and delusional imaginations. He pretty much criticizes ever adult he comes into contact with in the novel and he constantly clings onto unrealistic scenarios that lead to emotional outbursts.
-Renee Navarro
DeleteAs the novel progressed, I noticed Holden move from his obsession over Allie's death, to his urge to be with his sister Phoebe. I agree with Renee in how Holden demonstrates a progression of his maturity through showing his feelings and wanting to see Phoebe. Holden should be allowed to have psychological problems as he has had to deal with several situations that would cause anyone confusion on how to deal with it. Losing someone so close to him has evidently influenced how he sees others and references Allie several times throughout the novel in order to show his longing for his brother. But Holden seems to move past it by spending more time with Phoebe. Holden shows a different side of himself to Phoebe and Phoebe alone. Maybe because he realized how much his loved ones should mean to him? Or maybe it was because he has always had such affection to those younger than him. He even changes his mind with the convincing done by Phoebe to not leave and go west.
ReplyDeleteHolden can show his complex personality in order to demonstrate his confusion, as well as a way in dealing with all of the troubles he's had to deal with in his progression as a teenager. But his way of coping with his problems can be taken different ways if one does not truly understand Holden and what burdens he has to carry. So I feel like his actions, most of the time, have their reasons.
-Kyle Maravillas
DeleteI like many others who have commented in this post, I do not believe Holden is completely suicidal, but rather suffers from depression. Depression would be a symptom of his loss of Allie; it would explain his mood swings as well as his darker thoughts. And while depression may lead to suicide, which seemed to be the direction Holden was heading to, the ending give me a bit of hope. After seeing Phoebe, I believe she caused him to forget most of his troubles. Seeing as she managed to convince him to stay and not leave, I believe she would have also caused him to see the world in a more positive light.
ReplyDeleteHe seems to believe that had he died, nobody would really care. He states that James Castle had died in his turtleneck, perhaps he's projecting himself into his place. Nobody but the teacher went to help him, they all just stood there. Maybe he thinks the same thing will happen to him as well. Had he died he would be alone once again. Relating this to one of my previous posts, it seems loneliness is one of the things he's scared of the most.
I do not claim to be a psychologist in any way, shape or form. but something I can definitely see is that Holden is a teenager just like myself and only wants to be listened to. throughout the book, Holden always attempts to find older individuals/adults to be able to talk to yet always seems to be set aside and ignored. we would all be hypocritical for judging Holden for being somewhat cold because he has no trust, every single one of us has felt isolated at one point of our lives.
ReplyDeleteNow, I did in fact not claim to be a psychologist but I am deeply interested in this subject. And from all these studies I have learned that the human brain NEEDS human interaction for stimulation. Holden does not seem to be getting the human contact with others someone our age needs. Holden always seems to start a sentence with "listen" showing just how hungry he is to actually say what he feels even though when he has his opportunity he seems rather vague in his dialogue and desired result.
-Christian Viscontti
Holden's obsession with death can be compared to a person who has just seen a celebrity and has researched them many times due to their personal experience. Those that have experienced something as traumatic as death can understand what it may feel like to be so intrigued by the finality of life. Holden is not suicidal because he seems to mock the idea of death and a funeral, as he refers to the "fakes", and "phonies", that would fill the chapel to mourn his death. The people that he would genuinely hurt would be not only his mother but his sister as well, and he could not stand to think of his mother losing another son, and his sister losing another brother. He humors the idea not in a genuine manner, however; to entertain himself and wonder of death. Since his brother died of cancer earlier in his life he somewhat understands it, but must still wonder what death is.
ReplyDelete-Andrea Cruz
i do not think Holden was contemplating committing suicide mainly for the fact that, as I've stated before, the narrator is not a reliable source. i always like to take into consideration who exactly is telling the story whenever i delve into a novel. Holden is not exactly a mentally stable narrator due to all the events that have played out in his life such as death and expulsion. he has no intention of committing suicide seriously but because the topic of death is not drastically foreign to him, he has the capacity to talk about it to such a free extent. also take into the consideration that Holden is still only a teenager at the age of 16 who smokes heavily and drinks alcohol throughout his days in New York. normal teenagers don't even a fully developed pre-frontal cortex which is in charge of making decisions. Holden is talking in extremes because it is what he is used to doing. i believe he does it as some sort of personal defense mechanism in order to be prepare for the worst. golden likes to kid around a lot so going to extremes is normal for him even though it may seem drastic to us.
ReplyDeletebut what i find so interesting about Holden is that even though he talks about death to such an extent and is battling depression, i can tell that he is still trying to get better and doesn't want to give up. that's really the main reason i believe he wouldn't contemplate suicide. he still has many important aspects in his life like him family, his mom,phoebe, Allie, D.B.. He wants to live for them at the least so i doubt he would commit suicide just because he is confused or unhappy.
Although Holden is depressed, I do not think he is contemplating suicide. He does not enjoy living, and being surrounded by ‘phonies’, but he is too worried about what people will think of him after he dies to take any action. Holden doesn’t want to die, because he does not want the people whom he never really cared for pretend to care for him just because he is gone. Instead of dying, Holden has made an elaborate plan to leave New York, so he doesn’t have to face the ‘phonies’ again.
ReplyDeleteHolden seems to be obsessed with Allie’s death, but not death itself. I think that this is because Allie is the ghost that subconsciously drives Holden’s character. As Holden flunked school consistently, he wanted to protect Allie and make sure he came out to be the son his parents wanted him to be. He saw his little brother as a second chance to do what he couldn’t. After Allie died, Holden wasn’t interested in anything. The only thing that was keeping him sane was Allie, so sometimes he acts as if Allie didn’t ever die. For example, in chapter 22, when Phoebe asks Holden to name one thing he likes, the only thing he can name is Allie. It is as if he needed to be reminded that Allie was dead, because Holden feels him present in his life.
I believe that Holden is not taking death seriously when he is talking about how people will come to his funeral when he dies. I don't think he is the suicidal type. Yes he is depressed all the time but I guess it's because he doesn't get along with his classmates and doesn't have the best life ever. I think it is natural for him to have a slight obsession over Allie's death due to that he is his brother and he was really dear to him. Throughout the book he has always been talking positively about him. I think that the reason he doesn't want to die is because he doesn't want to end like his classmate Castle who ended up committing suicide, in other words he is a coward. But also wants to create his own life out of the city. - Lithzy Alvarado
ReplyDeleteDue to the many unfortunate events that have taken place, such as Allie's death, it has seriously taken affect on Holden which added more weight to his depression. Although Holden seems to mention a lot of deaths, personally, I believe that Holden just contemplated death in general, adding his own thoughts to what he could imagine will happen if he were to pass. I agree at one point, when Sunny and Maurice left (last paragraph on page 104), Holden did consider committing suicide. But then again, I also believe that that it was a quick thought. Later talking about Castle's suicide, I believe that he had consideration for those around him as well as how his body would be handled after. It seems that Castle's death also influenced his train of thought about committing suicide because he said he "didn't want a bunch of stupid rubbernecks looking at" him when he "was all gory" unlike Castle, whose body was stared at by his peers until Mr. Antolini picked him up. In my case, I find Holden's thoughts of death is quite relatable.
ReplyDelete-Carla Alipit Francisco
There is a difference between being suicidal and being depressed. Holden Caulfield appears to be a depressed person due to the fact that he has a negative attitude. However, he is not suicidal. Many people contemplate suicide at one point or another. It isn't out of a desire to do so but to explore the concept and realize the significance of life and death. Though Caulfield seems to have an inexplicable annoyance with the outside world and many people, he realizes that life is still worth living in the sense that he can change the path that he chooses to pursue in life. The death of Allie and lack of conformity with his peers presents Caulfield with isolation, extended moments of time in which he truly contemplates every possibility in his life. Even the most unappealing ones such as death.
ReplyDeleteHolden's contemplation of suicide is one of the many stages that victims of depression go through. His depression stems from both Allie's death and his own thoughts about growing up and the afterlife. Although Holden did consider suicide, it was very brief as he soon realized the impact which his suicide would have on those around him, especially his mother. Holden's experience with the carousel leads him to discover that life is more than he had previously thought, and that death wasn't altogether that scary to him. He no longer feared old age and death, but had no desire to commit suicide due to the long life ahead of him and the world of discovery awaiting him. He was still depressed, but in no way suicidal.
ReplyDeleteAs one ages, reality often becomes clearer in general as they are exposed to many different events in their life. Often, people do not begin experiencing incidents such as death of a family member until later in life. However, Holden at a very young age was exposed to the death of Allie at a very young age. As a result, Holden must have become very aware of the world around him and his experience of Allie’s death was most likely the cause of why Holden has such a difficult time following contemporary norms. He keep his distance with most people and is constantly criticizing in his mind and exposing “fakes.” This may be a reference to how he is more aware of how things work around him, possibly because of his experience with Allie’s death. I believe that Holden doesn’t contemplate suicide per se, however he does consider how people would act at his funereal. This is most likely because he wants to understand of how and why people act in the world around him. He himself had experienced how many people who had limited interactions with Allie had come to mourn at his funeral. To Holden this seemed fake and almost repulsive and he wondered if that’s just how the world would work. He was curious to know if the same would occur for him. Overall, I believe that Holden is not contemplating suicide but instead exposing the bleakness of the world.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that the Elkton Hills suicide involving James Castle was a reference to Holden contemplating suicide either. I believe that it was more of Holden admiring how James Castle acted in his situation. Do not misunderstand, I do not believe that Holden admired the fact that Castle ended up killing himself. Holden sees the world as full of people being “phonies,” people who don’t really follow ideals, but instead follow the flow of what is happening around them. I believe that Holden was actually admiring how James Castle continued to stand by his word and beliefs in, what Holden sees as, a world of fakes and phonies.
-Seth Yves Perez
ReplyDeleteA primary psychological aspect we as readers can draw upon to help understand Holden is towards the beginning of his journey when he decides to just leave Pencey. Holden is an adolescent boy who has left school and into the city having no exact plan or direction. It was completely reckless and impulsive of him to simply just leave without considering the consequences. By having Holden feel the need to feel overwhelmed by everyone at school and with his personal issues one can loose stability mentally. That is why I feel that he should have waited for a more psychological appropriate approach to cope with his problems. At that point in the novel there was no going back for Holden and from the train station forward everything that was happening to Holden just became even more difficult, comprising his mental health.
-Natalie Aguilar
I agree with the idea that Holden is not a teenager who wants to commit suicide however he does demonstrate depression and extreme sadness. It is completely understandable on why he is experiencing these thoughts due to what he has seen and experienced. Also, it is evident that the death of his brother definitely took a toll on his life and throughout the novel he continues to bring it up constantly and re-iterate that his brother was a great guy and Holden is always sharing the memories that they had together.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel he becomes more and more obsessed with the death of his brother because he seems to be one who directs Holden as he continues to remember him and mention him. I also agree with Daniel that not only the death of his brother cause him this depression but also the idea of growing up and facing adulthood that he is unaware of how to encounter.
-Mariana Simmons
In my point of view the main character Holden Caulfield wouldn't commit suicide. Through out the story we realize that he is depress and extremely sad, but he wouldn't get to the point of ending his life. This depression is caused do to his lack of relations with people. Holden likes to call everyone "phony" and I believe that it is due to his character that some people turn their back on him. It is evident that the death of Allie really hurt Holden. I clearly understand what Holden is going through. The death of a family member, or a loved one can have a long lasting impact and Holden is suffering from it. The way that Allie is described makes the reader understand that Allie was a mentor for Holden he was a role model for his brother.
ReplyDeleteThe negative attitude that Holden demonstrates might be due to loneliness. He is jealous of others and tries to judge them on their bad traits to make himself feel better.
Holden contemplates suicide many times in this novel, but him actually following through is not vary likely. Holden still has people he cares about especially his little sister Phoebe and his mother. He would be to worried about the toll suicide would have on the ones he love to actually commit to it. Holden and his family know what it is like to deal with death of family and the thought of putting them through that again is enough to stop him. Holden also has said quite a few times in the novel he is not brave enough or he does not have the nerve to do many of the things he imagines doing. On page 201he pictures violently confronting the person that wrote on the walls of Phoebe’s school, but then admits to not having the guts to even rub off the words. Holden’s contemplations of suicide are not likely to come true, but due represent his crushing depression and the mental struggles he is dealing with in The Catcher in the Rye.
ReplyDelete-Atlantis Rodriguez
Holden has contemplated suicide many times. Family and certain friends however seem to hold him back on taking that action. He is worried for Phoebe and his mother, who is still mourning Allie’s death. Jane seems to also be holding him back. He contemplates suicide because of the life he has had and does not want to keep living the horrors in his head. However Jane seems to be a clear reason why he has not committed suicide. Holden puts off calling Jane not because of her timing but because of his. He does not want to die so he makes up excuses about her not being home or it being too late so that he can put it off another day. The call to Jane seems to be what would be the end for Holden because with Jane he remembers a life when he was at his best and nothing could go wrong. He wants to keep that image so that he can go back to it and live the life he has missed. He is a person that on the outside he puts a straight face but inside he seems to overthink every aspect and take it all to heart. He is the type of person that can break at any second or make deranged decisions about what to do with his life. Going back into the book, the main suicidal moment that I recall was when he was in Central Park and he was on the bench in freezing weather and thought about freezing to death. He then thought of his family and how he could not have them go through another loss. Holden is not only scared for what comes after death but is mostly worried about the people around him. He does have suicidal thoughts but does not go through with the action. -Eileen Gutierrez
ReplyDeleteAs some of my peers have stated, Holden was not contemplating suicide. For example, there is the traumatic event where his younger brother, who he truly cared about, died. I believe he was only thinking about the idea of death, and wondering what would have happened if he died. Also, he mentions phonies and jerks would come to his funeral. He probably believes that due to how he portrays everyone in society. He is not close to many, so he knows many acquaintances, who he probably did not have a great relationship with, would attend. I believe he thinks about these occurrences because he is sad and awfully affected by his brother’s death.
ReplyDeleteI believe this novel does have a “ghost story”. The death of his brother which occurred earlier in his life has made a huge impact on Holden. This event is probably what drives Holden to act the way he is. This also explains why he feels as if no one understands him, and he is all alone in his society.
- Janelle Douglas
Throughout the book, I find Holden's character to be depressing. He constantly states that he hates most of his peers/teachers at Pency and that he has become distant from his own family, thus leading to the character's sense of emptiness. Still, I don’t think Holden is suicidal because although he does mention the idea of committing suicide a couple times, he cares too much about others, for example his sister Phoebe. It is understandable that Holden is in fact extremely depressed and has taken his brother’s death, Allie, at heart. I understand Holden since a death from a family member or a friend can be very heartbreaking and sometimes as human we come to a point where the pain becomes too much. Also, when Holden talks about the boy at Elkton Hills, James Castle, he explains that he was not his friend but he remembers him because he let him borrow a turtleneck sweater but he still feels depressed due to his death, in which he committed suicide. Like Holden, there’s a person that we are not very familiar with but when tragedy strikes in a persons life, we feel sorry for them. I knew a girl from a group outside of school and I remember her because she would always be nervous whenever we had to perform. I never really talked to her, though I wish I had more but she passed away in a car accident this year. I was completely shocked since I did not know girl much but I remember her from those times whenever she would be very nervous to perform. What I mean to say is that like Holden, I did not know much about her, she was not my friend, but when a person you recall a mere moment with, it hurts to know that they are now gone.
ReplyDelete-Paulina Martinez
DeleteHolden's character is derived from psychological obstacles; ones that create new ones and build to become other ones and so on. What I believe, is that various factor lead Holden to become the way he is. First, the death of his brother Allie, a person he very much admired and respected, took a serious toll on him. Also, being frequently rejected or excluded in society (couple expulsions) grew on his anger. When a person, especially a young person, becomes overwhelmed by many things, they hold in too many emotions and if they are like Holden that does not necessarily let them out in a healthy way, then these troubles start affecting who one is. I strongly believe that these factors made Holden posses a cynical personality of a person who mostly prefers to be isolated even though that is what they mainly complain about. Addressing the suicidal behavior, I think that like many stressed teenagers who already have the toll of being prone to mood sensitivity, Holden's thoughts can be a form of contemplative suicide but are not to be taken too serious. I think that it is never really safe to say whether someone would be capable of suicide or not and that it is never responsible to ignore any possible signs, however, in regards to our character Holden, he has not directly stated to the reader that he has any attempts to commit such act and neither talks about how he DESERVES such a thing. The fact that he may be obssessed about death can mean many things, but desires of suicide, I think is not one.
ReplyDelete- Daniela Vargas
Coming from a teenager, it is hard to balance everything. I know not everyone goes through the thought process of a suicidal person, but I would like to give you some insight of how it is like to have depression. It gets really lonely and scary. It is like drowning while you see your peers breathing just fine. Depression is shackles that wraps around your ankles, preventing you to progress, and Holden admitting that he is depressed made me somewhat connect to him. Who knows why he is admitted to a mental institution, maybe he attempted suicide. You cannot really judge people without really knowing their whole story and I only know a few days worth of Holden so I would not be able to judge whether he is suicidal or not, but I can relate to him as someone who gets depressed. Indeed, suicide might cross his mind, but who knows if he has intent to pursue it. Like I said, he might have attempted suicide, that is why he is admitted to a mental hospital, but who knows.
ReplyDelete- Jemima Subaran