Sunday, July 3, 2016

Post # 10 Holden's Mocking Attitude

Dear AP students:

    First, Holden Caulfield goes out of his way to mock many things in this book.  He mocks religion, money, prep schools, parents, adults, military people, Ivy League students, his peers, football (by not attending the game), the people that donate to his prep school, etc.  But who is he mocking on pages 108-109 when he is talking about suitcases?  In this passage, he discusses how significant a role his suitcases played in his relationship with his roommate. He mentions that his roommate accused him of being "bourgeois" which was meant as an insult (look up the word).  But then Caulfield explains that you can't have a relationship if one person has expensive suitcases and the other has cheap ones.  He makes a point of mentioning that the two nuns he is sitting next to on the train have inexpensive suitcases. Finally, he attempts to compare the way Catholics are always trying to find out if other people are Catholic with trying to compare the quality of two people's suitcases.  It can spoil the conversation.  My question is, who is he mocking in this passage?  Or is he indeed mocking anyone? Is it something about money? Is it something about capitalism?  He does say at the end of the passage on page 113 that money makes "you blue as hell."  What about his explanation of his dad losing money on Broadway shows?  Does this tie into all this questioning about people's suitcases?


108 comments:

  1. After going back and analyzing the specific quotations mentioned by Mr. Rodriguez, I still feel as if I did not completely realize the significance of the suitcases, but I may have been able to draw a few legitimate conclusions. First, we have all established that Holden's thoughts go against society's typical values and culture. He mocks the rich white group of people in his community and how they carry out their lives, including the prep schools they attend. So the fact that he seemed to be mocking the suitcases in his dorm points back to the same white culture that he often criticizes. He seemed to like the nuns so much, due to his lack of disrespect towards them. These nuns had inexpensive suitcases, which shows that he most likely sees that as a good thing. Caulfield does not advocate for the rich lifestyles that many of his classmates at Pencey had, therefore he gave respect to those who did not live the rich and white lifestyle: the nuns.

    Another conclusion I came to was that his comparison of cheap and expensive suitcases mocks today's society in a way. He says that you cannot have a relationship with someone if you have expensive suitcases and the other person has cheap ones. Reading this reminded me of how some well-off people do not typically enjoy accompanying others who are not as well-off. Basically the rich kids hang out with other wealthy kids, not the middle class ones. Although this does not occur everywhere, it does still exist in our world today. Perhaps our narrator was trying to point out this unequal pattern of society where people do not always mix due to how much money they have.

    When Caulfield says that money can make you blue, I referred back to events that I witnessed that would support this claim. Sometimes I see my own parent talk about money or how we should be careful on how much we spend. And if one month does not bring enough income, the whole family starts to worry. I thought of Holden's quote as basic summary of the issues that having or not having money can bring to a person or family. Clearly, it did not phase Holden because he spent lavishly in bars throughout the book before he returned home. Nevertheless, I can still relate to his claim that money can make a person blue.

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  2. After re-reading pages 108-109, it is clear that Holden's main point is that people judge others by the types of suitcases they have. This is clear when Holden claims, "You think if you're intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do. They really do." Holden is talking about prejudices that have been ingrained into people. I can see how Holden is mocking society because he is saying that having a nice suitcase communicates to others that you are of higher class. Those who do not have nice suitcases secretly envy the people who do have them, as evidenced by Holden's former roommate. Holden hates the way suitcases define people, but this is ironic because he goes on a rant about the nun's suitcases on the train. By Holden mocking society and the social class system, the topic of money naturally gets involved. He goes on to say that money makes "you blue as hell." I believe Holden makes this remark because he has spent a lot of money the past day or so and nothing seemed to relieve him of his internal pain. I think he is trying to say that money corrupts people and cannot bring genuine happiness. Holden could have also said this because his family is apparently wealthy. They can afford to send Holden away to private schools, making holden feel even more isolated and alienated. It is no secret why Holden sees money as a root of unhappiness in his life. The only things that Holden has genuinely seemed to care about are people, not money.

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  3. In chapter 14, Holden encounters two nuns who possess inexpensive suitcases. After seeing the suitcases, he immediate judges the nuns claiming that he “can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them” (Salinger 120). In this scene, it is evident that Holden is mocking the nuns and judging them based on materialistic goods. Before even talking to them, he seems to classify them as those of poorer social class. However, he begins to enjoy their company after he talks to them and gets to know them better. In agreement to what Negin has stated, this also reveals a type of prejudice in our society as well. It is not a prejudice based on race but based on ordinary, materialistic things. The “suitcase scene” demonstrates man’s nature to immediately judge people based upon materialistic goods, showing that social status is gained only through an individual’s amount of wealth and material possessions. In the same chapter, Holden recalls his relationship with his former roommate Dick Slagle. In this scene, I believe he is mocking his roommate’s “phony” action due to the fact that his roommate convinced people that Holden’s fancy suitcases were actually his. This again reveals the fact that society tends to judge/accept people based on material possessions and wealth.

    Additionally, the comparison of Catholics trying to find out if others are Catholics and trying to find out the quality of one’s suitcase may show a problem in how friendships or “cliques” are formed in today’s society. It demonstrates how some individuals would only consider being friends with others based on the same religious backgrounds or amount of wealth, thus implying that friendships can only be made by being equal in social class/status. Although it is beneficial to find similarities and common ground when establishing friendships, Holden uses the comparisons stated above to show that these “prejudices” should not be the primary basis to whether a friendship should/should not be established.

    -Abigail Zaratan

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  4. I observed that Holden does in fact judge others based on the materialistic goods or insignificant looks that they possess, but I came to conclusion that he ultimately despises how he does so. Not only that, but he hates how society has shaped his mindset into thinking in such a way. I did sense of bit of pretentiousness when he topped off that scene by mentioning how Stradlaters suitcases were "as good as mine," yet throughout the book I never seemed to shake this feeling of his that the world around him is the problem. This is why he always mocks people who enjoy visiting the theatre as it brainwashes them to strive to live their lives accordingly, why he always points out people who are phonies as they think one way then act another.

    The idea that people judge others according to what they have or what they are is what he is mocking in this scene. This urge to break away is what sets Holden apart from the rest. Despite his hypocritical ways when interacting with others, Holden is a narrator that is able to point out the flaws that not many are able to see.

    -Allan Dizon

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    1. I agree with Allan's assessment that while Holden does seem to evaluate the people he encounters based on insignificant criteria like looks and suitcases, he appears to recognize that this is an internalized prejudice, and despises that he cannot seem to control the impulse to make quick judgments. In this case, I do not feel that Holden is truly mocking the nuns- he is instead mocking the cruel world that has forced him to consider something like suitcases as an indication of a person's true character. Holden recognizes that his judgments are unfair, for he states that, "it sounds terrible to say" (page 108) that he can hate somebody based solely on the poor quality of their suitcases. However, he feels trapped by the societal norms that he has grown up with. Additionally, he most likely feels entitled to make these sort of judgments on the suitcases of strangers because of his past experiences, such as with his former roommate Dick Slagle. If someone with inexpensive suitcases can mock Holden's high-quality ones, calling them "bourgeois as hell" (page 108), then Holden feels he should be able to mock those of lesser quality for being "very inexpensive-looking" (page 108).

      Holden seems to recognize that he is trapped in a vicious cycle of judgment between the wealthy and the middle/lower class; he in fact contributes to it while being remorseful, wishing the world were different. This behavior is quite hypocritical, and yet is extremely typical of teenagers. I'm sure that most of us have fancy ideals that we wish were part of society, yet rarely do we make much of an effort to affect the chance we wish to see. The truth is that teenagers often feel powerless, and restless- there is so much that we want and hope to do, that we are often paralyzed into inaction. In Holden we find the persona of someone with big dreams but little effect on the world that I know I, at least, am hoping to overcome.

      -Riley Cruse

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    2. I found Allan and Riley's responses very insightful. After analyzing the situation, I now understand what both students are claiming. Holden's judgement is influenced by the society that surrounded his upbringing. To judge someone based on something so materialistic such as appearance or suitcases is unreliable, and as stated by Riley, he recognizes this flaw. I also agree with Riley that Holden's hypocritical behavior can be seen in most teenagers today, especially with the heavy influence of social media. Instead of putting in effort for what we want, we gloss over images, tweets, and use hashtags to represent our desires.
      -Maia Magno

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    3. I agree with my peers about the encounters Holden experiences with the suitcases, in a sense that Holden is living in a society where the quality and expense of your baggage determines your position and how people perceive each other. In Holden's explanation of the two nuns with their cheap suitcases, i can see that he does judge them based on the quality of materialistic goods. This does show that suitcases determined whether you were part of the upper or lower class community. I also agree with Allan Dizon and how Holden hates how society is formed and That he is quite the one to mock people in his societal era because everyone is being brainwashed by the media to live their lives according to what the see. Just like in the present, people tend to conform to the standards of society proposed by the media. And as Maia had further claimed, this type of behavior and judgement also comes from upbringing as well as other societal encounters such as Holden's encounter with Dick Slagle.

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  5. Holden mocks because he's jaded. He mocks because he hates everything. He mocks because he grew up privileged and probably was conditioned to inspect everyone he met. People of wealth are often tagged with the stereotype of being extremely judgmental. I think it's fair to assume that Salinger would portray the wealthy in a negative light using this stereotype. Since Holden grew up wealthy he was probably brought up to analyze and judge the appearance and the manners of every person he met. It's no surprise that Holden hasn't broken this habit and continues to judge and mock everything.

    I interpreted the scene with the nuns as an impulse. He was taught to nitpick at the superficial qualities of the people he meets. This is evident in his interactions with the nuns, "That depressed me. I hate it if I'm eating bacon and eggs or something and someone else is only eating toast and coffee"(143). Holden notices when others have less than he does and he pities them. Sometimes he even appreciates their movement away from opulence and social norms but he still prefers the life he was brought up in.

    -Andrea Ramirez

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  6. Holden is a very complex character. I find him to be very contradictive of himself. When he mocks the rich and poor, I question who does he not criticize? I found this later in the book when he mocks “dopey” guys. He hates the idea of marriage, and then asks her to marry him, all within a short amount of time. It makes Holden seem as a very complex character, yet I wonder if he really is just a basic, pessimistic, young teenage boy. I do not like Holden very much at all.
    I believe that the scene in chapter 15 with the suitcases, as I have stated before is intended to mock the poor. I think Holden classifies that a person is either “rich” or “poor”. He hates both statuses for certain reasons. In one sense, he does not like poor people because of how “cheap” they and their belongings are, hence the suitcase criticism. Considering the fact that he does not like the rich or the poor, he cannot stand the idea with the two classes intermingling. I think he does not want to see anyone get “cheated” with one person being wealthier than the other. This is all speculation, but seems likely to me.
    I was surprised Mr. Rodriguez did not input the Romeo and Juliet references in Chapter 15. Was J.D. Salinger mocking his own character since he cannot find love? Why does Salinger use other notable literature works in The Catcher in the Rye? What do you make of this reference?

    -Tanner Claudio

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    1. Tanner's negative view of Holden is similar to my own. While his honesty within his own thoughts may appeal to some readers, I still believe that Holden is simply a spoiled and cynical individual. His pessimistic seem to be biased against those who appear to be capable of clear thought while those with child-like innocence are praised and regarded with much more respect.

      For the suitcases I agree with Tanner that Holden does not really want the two classes to be mingling. I believe that this comes from the idea that Holden dislikes people who act fake towards each other. This is likely to happen when people of two different positions interact, where the individual of lower status might kiss up to the one of higher status.

      I found that Holden's dislike of the characters of Romeo and Juliet is ironic seeing as Tanner and I find Holden to be unappealing. He criticizes their actions for being rash but his actions also seem to be misguided as well. For me, the level of hypocrisy within Holden decreases his authority as a narrator.

      -Bisheshata Basnet

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  7. When Holden first encounters the nuns with the suitcases, he is very quick to judge/notice the cheap looking suit-cases. This entire situation describes and mocks the fact that people actually judge each other based on the items that we own. Holden continues to ramble on about his room mate Dick Slagle and his uncomfortable situation with suitcases (because of money) . In this instance, money really seemed to alienate himself from friendships, as he grew up from a very wealthy family. He finally ends his story with the statement “Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.” I believe that he concludes his little story with this quote in order to get across the point that money cannot buy you happiness. This idea is supported throughout the novel as Holden makes his way throughout New York City. From offering to pay for a cab driver’s drink or hiring a prostitute, Holden never really found true happiness even with all the money he spent. Instead, money seemed to degrade Holden’s mind/view on the different social classes. Lastly, I would have to agree with Tanner that Holden does not really seem to associate himself with the rich or the poor. Coming from a wealthy upbringing and being a rebel, Holden dislikes coming from a well-off family. On the other hand, Holden looks down upon individuals who don’t have luxuries.
    -Jassin Reyes

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    1. I agree with your assessments of this part in the book. The suitcases represent the tiers of wealth the people in the book are in. With his suitcase and the "bourgeois" insult from his former roommate seems to state that his wealth is that of a higher class. He seems to detest his wealth as it has somewhat alienated him from his peers. He's seen spending his money frivolously, yet he isn't completely worried. Holden actually seems to respect the nuns a bit more due to their beat up suitcases. Perhaps it shows him that his level of wealth isn't necessary to live. His quote “Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell." would show his dislike of money. I think it displays the fact that he believes that money corrupts. All the money in the world wouldn't necessarily make him happier.

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  8. I stated in a previous entry that Holden continues to criticize numerous people, places, and religions as a way of coping with his alienation and loneliness. Although Holden does implement his critical tone when describing the nuns’ suitcases in the middle of chapter 15, there is also an overarching message regarding social prejudice. He states that he despises people that have “cheap suitcases with them.” Despite their suitcases being ragged and cheap, Holden eventually grows to like the nuns and enjoy their company in the sandwich bar. This scene is meant to reveal to readers how people judge others’ social status based on their material goods without allowing for a chance to dispel the perceived thought. In other words, if a person has few or low-quality possessions, the person is believed to be cheapskate or unsuccessful. Holden demonstrated this by immediately receiving a negative impression on the nuns because of their inexpensive suitcases. The opposite is also true, that if a person were to have many high-quality products then they are perceived as rich and successful. Holden’s story regarding his roommate Dick Slagle is an example of this. Holden describes his roommate asking to borrow his fancy suitcases just so that he can appear classier and be accepted by his peers. Slagle feared that people would think of him in a negative way had he displayed his own suitcases. He feared the rejection and discrimination he would receive for having inexpensive suitcases. Both the incident with the nuns and Slagle exemplify how people are judged based on their material goods. The same idea applies with religion as well. Holden was glad that the nuns did not ask if he was Catholic or not, claiming that it would have “spoiled the conversation if they had.” The nuns would have viewed him differently or act a certain way had he disclosed the fact that he was not Catholic.

    All in all, the message the author wants to get across is that society is quick to judge people based on a person’s material goods or religious preference.

    -Kelvin Alvero

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    1. I agree with the statement made by Kelvin as it seems entirely true that Holden fails to really bond with much of anyone and instead continues his mocking of his surroundings and the way people form cliques and social bonds. It appears that the suitcase scene as well as the breakfast scene would imply that he dislikes having such differentiators that can work to separate him from those surrounding him. This would also relate to Holden’s mentioning of when people question his religion as it could possibly become one more thing to separate him from others. Additionally, it seems that Holden dislikes groups of people that interact in an incredibly friendly manner with one another as shown by his dislike of Sally and the male friend she suddenly met on their date. This detail may be important to this topic because of how Holden treats their suddenly friendliness with disdain despite the possibility of them only having had met once while at a social gathering. If Holden does disapprove of social cliques then it would make sense for him to dislike Sally and her “phony” connections.
      The word “phony” also brings to my attention that Holden may believe social cliques are all phony because they suggest that the members of that community must get along as friends, bringing you closer. This would explain why he dislikes the thought of Sally acting friendly with someone she possibly met once and may also explain why he explained how bad Pencey was by mentioning how there was a group of boys that would not let Ackley into the group because of his undesirable features.

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    4. I concur with Kelvin Alvero's statement. After reading this particular passage once more in a meticulous manner, it is evident to me that Holden elaborates on the suitcases in order to illustrate a point
      that people frequently judge others based on their belongings or materialistic things, as opposed to what is beneath the surface. Ironically, Holden professes, "It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them." Despite the fact that he loathes the way that suitcases seem to characterize an individual, he is equally guilty of the same preconception. At the end of the passage, Holden states that money makes "you blue as hell." He verifies that money cannot buy happiness and may lead to corruption. Holden habitually discusses the amount of money he has in his pocket. While in New York City, Holden initially has $180 dollars but over time, he compulsively spends it all to soothe his negative emotions. It is apparent that Holden does not spend his money on things that may mitigate the cognitive symptoms of his depression.

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    5. I agree with Kelvin’s statement about how Holden is quick to judge a person and yet contrary to what he first though, his judgment actually changed after having a good conversation with the nuns. The suitcases, in his view, are actually a reflection of the person owning them. That means that a good-looking stable suitcase represents a wealthy and glamorous owner while an old, ripped suitcase might represent someone from the lower class. In this occasion, he was quick to point out the nuns’ suitcases as being inexpensive. Yet after starting a conversation with them about their lives, he started to enjoy himself with their company. This is ironic because he describes himself as a pretty wealthy individual, even able to donate 10 dollars as a contribution. Such occasion demonstrates his view on the symbolism of the suitcases as well as his contradictions.

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  9. Regarding the specific passages mentioned above, it seems as though Holden Caulfield is almost envious of a simpler time when popular culture was not dominated by unnecessary concern for labels such as rich or poor, religious or atheist. In his description of "phonies" there is a distinct resemblence to the manner in which he believes both Catholics and Ivy League students conduct themselves in that rather than focusing more on important matters there appears to always remain an urge to understand one's place in the world as if everyone belongs to one single group and will be ostracized by any opposition. In this way I think that author J. D. Salinger is attempting to convey his feelings of confusion concerning the ways we as members of society treat one another. On more than one occasion it is made quite clear that the protagonist of the novel feels alienated from the population, possibly because he thinks and acts differently from others when it comes to individual behavior and broad association with ridiculous trends pertaining to clothing, cinema, and music. Holden's iconic "mocking" personality helps to better establish hidden intentions within the text meant to discreetly reveal aspects of the authors character that would otherwise be unknown to readers. This in turn aids audiences in more accurately interpreting the text and analyzing key literary devices which cement the context in which the story is written. The criticism employed so frequently by the main character, in my mind, serves as a way of satirizing problems the writer may have had with the society in which he spent his childhood, or perhaps that which he returned changed to following his military efforts in the European campaign of World War II. Either way, the techniques utilized by Salinger prompt readers to ultimately consider human nature and examine the phenomena presented in every day life in the way that we identify ourselves with likeminded individuals. In doing so, we are attempting to surround ourselves with familiarity as opposed to trying to find someone completely different and persuading them to think as we do. However, I believe that Salinger found himself unable to discover any large group of people with whom he shared any significant commonalities and so chose to instead observe society and share his constructive, yet occasionally pessimistic criticism through literature. And it is this same sentiment that is reflected in the character of Holden Caulfield who feeling isolated from a world of false personas chooses to analyze what he believes to be unnecessary products of popular culture in an effort to somewhat avoid assimilation or conformity and better understand himself.

    -Quentin Cruz-Boyer

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  10. To answer Mr. Rodriguez's question, I believe the narrator is mocking society, as well as himself, during this passage. Like Allan Dizon points out, although Holden himself is guilty of these actions, he is not necessarily fond of it. I find it interesting that the societal problems going on during the time period in which The Catcher in the Rye was written is still relevant to today's society. In the book, similarly to our current time period, it is natural for an individual to judge others based on their appearance, belongings, and overall status in society. Tanner Claudio points out that Holden is a very tricky and complex character, and it is apparent when Holden judges people not only from the lower class in society, but also people of higher class. Moreover, I found it ironic that Holden was so quick to judge the nuns simply by their cheap suitcases, yet admitted to enjoying their company. Later in the book, it is revealed that he even tried looking for them again, although was unsuccessful. I not only think that Holden was mocking society, but the author was as well. I believe the author created a strong message towards for the audience in that we should never "judge a book by its cover" because we never really know the personality of an individual until we actually get to know them. The author is calling attention to the mistakes that individuals constantly make in our every day lives.

    The idea that money makes "you blue as hell" is significant because the narrator is trying to inform readers that while many people believe money is required for happiness and contentment in life, it is not. Many individuals go through extremes to attain money, thinking that they will be happy when they become wealthy. Although in some cases, this can bring temporary happiness, the reality of it is that money cannot keep you happy forever. In agreement with Justin Bleisch, Holden seemed most happy when he was around people he cared about.

    -Catalina Isip

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  11. I find that Kelvin's response accurately analyzes the significance of the situation with the two nuns. I have noticed throughout my life people have always been quick to judge others based on physical characteristics such as attire without really understanding what that individual has gone through. What if the two nuns had just experienced a traumatic event in their life and in the near future are attending a funeral or a conference to inspire others and share their message. In my community, I have come to realize that one’s outside appearance does not accurately reflect who they are in the inside. I can assure you that the nuns are more than just a pair of veils carrying out the word of God. In addition, the narrator continues to depict such a pessimistic attitude with no light at the end of the tunnel. I like to think of judgmental people as individuals who only share their flaws and own concerns with society by a direct reflection of their opinion and Holden Caulfield is only providing insight on his own personality. Overall, the author, J.D. Salinger seems to have employed many symbolic meanings throughout the novel, “The Catcher in the Rye” and I am curious to see what is next.

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  13. I agree that Holden tends to mock various things throughout the book, but I do not believe that he is mocking anything in this part of the chapter. Instead, I think that Holden is trying to explain his views on relationships and social standing. I came to this conclusion when Holden began recalling how he had roomed with Dick Slagle and his inexpensive suitcases. Prior to this recollection, Holden's comments on his hatred for inexpensive suitcases does at first appear to mock and jab at at "bourgeois" and/or uptight society, similar to Negin's reference to wealthy rich white people in his community, but his inclusion of a personal story leads me to believe that Holden mentions this story for the sake of having a story to tell. In his story, it seemed to me that he does point out Slagle's hypocritical use of the word "bourgeois," as if Slagle didn't understand what the word truly meant. This point in his discussion about suitcases stuck out to me as the only part in which he may have been mocking someone, specifically the uptight and arrogant students that he had met in Pencey.

    As Holden wraps up his story about Dick Slagle and his inexpensive suitcase, he claims that it is difficult being roommates with someone who has a more expensive-looking than you, because others will start drawing their own conclusions about one's intelligence and sense of humor. Here I believe Holden may just be complaining about the disapproving and overly judgmental society that he lives in.

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  14. After reading other responses, I agree that Holden is quick to judge others based on their materialistic things such as the suitcases. In the scene where he meets the two nuns he quickly spots the inexpensive suitcases and judges them. This situation is very similar in today's society, those who have more money and can buy more expensive items feel superior or better than those who can't afford them. I'm not saying that Holden feels superior to the nuns because he clearly states that it's not important and that he can't stop himself from judging them at that instant but for others this is the case. On page 141 it states, "They were these very inexpensive looking suitcases the ones that aren't genuine leather or anything. It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it..." I think that Salinger wrote this to show to the audience how society can really change how you see and judge a person depending on their clothes and looks.

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  15. I interpreted the scene in pages 108-109 as Holden mocking society and how it tells us that the amount of money people have, defines their worth. I agree with the point that Andrea made about the environment Holden grew up playing a role in why he judged people so quickly solely based on their material possessions. With Holden growing up in a wealthy family that is able to send him off to prestigious preparatory schools, he is accustomed to see people that do not possess the same things he does as being lesser than. I think Salinger included Holden's memory with his past roommate Dick Slagle to show how a person of lower to middle class viewed the importance of suitcases as much as those of the higher class. Dick definitely seemed jealous of Holden by constantly saying his roommate's suitcases were "bourgeois" and everything he had was "bourgeois". Dick constantly judged Holden's belongings because he knew that what you have leads people to automatically make preconceived notions about you. This is the reason Dick wanted his peers to think Holden's suitcases were actually his so that he could be more accepted and viewed as a person with wealth.

    This then relates to the line "Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell" that is said on page 113. I think that Holden was trying to convey the message that no matter how much money you have or what your status is, it will never make you feel genuinely happy although it may seem that way.

    -Atheana Lopez

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  16. I believe that holden begins to mock people that have less money then he does and judges them so quickly until he begins to really know the person. For example his romate with the inexpensive suitcase holden liked him and was thinking about him at the time showing us that holden judged him to quickly same with the nuns he sees there inexpensive suitcase and judges them but then begins to have a conversations and enjoys the time he spent talking to them. It is very common in today's society that people begin to judge a person by how they dressed and what they own and they don't give them a chance to show they are more then what they seem to be.

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  17. To answer the first question, I believe that Holden mocks things in order to explain their true purpose in society or what he believes they represent. For example, when Holden is mocking the suitcases, he is really trying to emphasize the strict social standards imposed at the time. The expensive suitcases represent the wealthy in society and the cheap suitcases represent the poor and middle class. When Holden states that “It isn’t important, I know, but I hate it when someone has cheap suitcases” (Chapter 15, page 141). Holden then goes back to recount the tale of when he first realized this feeling when he met his past roommate Dick Slagle. I believe that Holden did not begin to like suitcases because his first encounter with them can be described as he would have liked to call “phony”. He was at an expensive boarding school, so he probably expected everyone to have genuine leather suitcases just like him. Seeing his roommate, Dick Slagle have mediocre looking suitcase probably infuriated him because they probably reinstated his annoyance with fake people. Therefore, the reason why a person with an expensive suitcase and an inexpensive suitcase can never be together is because they come from two different social classes. During that era, it would be seen as taboo if a person of wealth and a person of poverty were to be together.
    I believe that Holden is not really mocking the nuns. Instead he realizes that society’s standards have are the ones that make him judge and discriminate against other minorities. I agree with Riley when she says that his actions can be seen in teenagers nowadays. It is true that some teenagers can develop strong feelings on an idea or movement, however most of us may never do the things that we say we want to accomplish. Overall, I believe that Holden is hypercritical and judgemental about the suitcases because he wants to reveal the strict regulations imposed by society and how they should never intermingle with anything different than themselves.

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  18. After analyzing the passage discussing different quality suitcases on pages 108 and 109, I have come to the conclusion that Holden is mocking his own prejudice against people with cheap suitcases. He explicitly states they he could begin to hate someone just because they had cheap suitcases. Holden is mocking the importance that he, as well as the rest of society, places on material possessions. By explaining that it is not possible for one to develop a relationship if one person has an expensive suitcase, while the other has a cheap one, Holden is highlighting the social divisions based on economic merit that prevent people from truly relating. Holden mentions this while conversing with nuns who carried inexpensive suitcases. Nuns symbolize faith, purity, and kindness, and are often associated with charitable acts. Yet, these nuns are carrying inexpensive suitcases,living without economic luxury. The juxtaposition of nuns and inexpensive suitcases conveys the idea that there are good people, people who one may enjoy pursuing a relationship with, who are in a lower or different economic position than one's own. I think Holden recognizes this, yet is still uncomfortable with the idea. At the end of the passage, Holden explains that he at least enjoyed staying with Stradlater at Pencey because they both had nice suitcases. They were both wealthy. I did not feel like Holden was being a snob when he said this, however I did sense that he is uncomfortable around those less fortunate than himself. I believe his discomfort is either rooted in his inability to relate to those with cheap suitcases, or in guilt that he possesses such expensive suitcases. That is why I came to the conclusion that Holden is mocking himself; he too believes in the narrow social viewpoint that people of different economic classes cannot truly form relationships with each other.
    -Lilliana Conradi

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  19. Holden mocks many things throughout the book, we have addressed that he mocks the school, women, his peers and elders. In page 108-109 when he addresses the suitcases can mean the difference in social classes. I do not completely understand the reference to the suitcases but what I can assume is that when a person has an expensive suitcase they must come from a high class and when someone has a inexpensive suitcase, like the nuns, they must be form a low class. Holden roommate called him a “bourgeois” which is someone from the middle class, and like Mr. Rodriguez stated it was offensive during the time frame.

    We can establish hat Holden does not typically like the rich class since he did not do well with the people in Pencey but found a connection with the nuns who had inexpensive suitcases. As my peers have stated he can not control his desire to judge people and there materialistic necessities. He seems to be mocking the poor by saying that the suitcase looks cheap and criticizes the rich and poor. Holden sets p an idea that money can not be everything in life. Towards the end of the book he begins to run to of money sine he has been spending it on drinks and hotel rooms. He begins to end up on the poor side when he originally started on the rich society. My peers have stated that money can not buy you happiness which is accurate. I realized that when Holden went to visit his sister both of them were incredibly happy and realized many things about each other. Holden realizes there are different social classes and the only thing money can buy are materialistic objects but not happiness.

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  20. I believe that holden begins to mock people that have less money then he does and judges them so quickly until he begins to really know the person. For example his romate with the inexpensive suitcase holden liked him and was thinking about him at the time showing us that holden judged him to quickly same with the nuns he sees there inexpensive suitcase and judges them but then begins to have a conversations and enjoys the time he spent talking to them. It is very common in today's society that people begin to judge a person by how they dressed and what they own and they don't give them a chance to show they are more then what they seem to be.

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    1. I agree with Joshua's statement in which Holden mocks people that have less money than he does as well as materialistic goods and by looks. Holden is too quick to judge because like Joshua said, his roomate and the nuns had inexpensive suitcases, making Holden judge them by thinking that they're poor, but as soon as he strikes a conversation with them, he enjoys talking with them, Holden even tries to look for the nuns while waiting for Phoebe at the museum. Society today has an issue of being quick to judge, which is why I think Holden is such an interesting character because he possesses the traits that a teenager today has. This situation claims that Holden is quick to judge, but once he gets to know them, then he switches up and actually enjoys spending time with them.

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  21. First, when Holden is talking about suitcases, I think that he is actually mocking society’s social classes (the poor and the rich). When he is explaining the incident with his roommate, he is mocking his roommate and other people the think the way he does. Meaning, he mocks society in that the poor want to be rich. He is mocking society in that people tend to be judgmental of others based on their appearance. In other words, he is saying that Americans are critical of others based on their appearance and that Americans hold materialistic views and morals. For example, he criticized the two nuns for having inexpensive suitcases but then he had a nice conversation with them. I think that this shows how Americans judge other people before they get to know them. In the incident with his roommate, he repeatedly points out that since his roommate made it seem like the suitcases were his because Americans hold judgements based on wealth. Overall, he is saying that Americans treat each other good or bad based on their amount of wealth. This also ties into religion. He says that catholics want to know who the other catholics are. I think that this also shows how the way we treat people is based on their who they are and if we agree or identify with their morals and way of life.

    -Daniela Navarro

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  22. To begin with, I believe that Holden significantly shows a clear representation on society today. Nowadays, others are put down and judged based on material possessions instead of how they really are. Holden judged the nuns based on appearance however seemed to enjoy their company once he got to actually know them. As Catalina Isip stated, I believe the author hoped to make the message clear that we should never judge a book by its cover and we should treat people based on their true identity. It is clear that throughout this classic novel, Holden Caulfield judges both the lower and higher class. The suitcases played a huge role in his relationship with his room mate and Holden was accused of being "bourgeois". After doing further research, Holden knew he was middle classed which could support why he always judged the most and less fortunate. To conclude, Salinger encourage the idea that we should never judge before knowing the person.

    Holden ends chapter 15 with the statement, "Goddamn money. It always ends up making you blue as hell". I believe that Salinger included this in his novel to portray how money plays a significant toll on a people. Many believe that there is nothing more to life than being rich and wealthy. However, the key to a happy lifestyle has nothing to do with owning loads of money.
    -Camryn Ferrer

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  23. When Holden mentions the suitcases, I believe he is mocking society and their created system that is based off prejudice. At first I thought that the system was based strictly based on financial distinctions as he implies that people only associate themselves with others with the same kind of suitcases, the nice looking ones (or the rich) with the nice looking ones, and the ratty ones with the ratty ones. However, in chapter 15 I became aware that the system was based on prejudice as he describes how Catholics are trying to figure out if an individual was Catholic as well. Holden implies that the social class system is divided into financial status first then within each class, people will select who they socialize with based on religion, politics, or race. What I found ironic is that although Holden seems to despise of this system, he conforms to it which is evident when he judges the nuns by their suitcases and seems to agree with the Catholics perspective (although he is an atheist). However, what continues to alienate Holden to society is that he tries to dismiss his first impression based on prejudice and continues to talk to the nuns. This depicts how Holden in a way is mocking himself too as he conforms to certain aspects of adulthood while trying to maintain his childhood innocence.

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  24. After analyzing Holden's comments and story about suitcases, I believe that he is mocking those who have cheaper suitcases. His comments confuse me, however, because they seem to contradict how he feels about people with inexpensive suitcases. At first he says "I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them" (Salinger 141). I am not sure if he simply despises people with cheap suitcases, or if he can't explain why he hates people with those types of suitcases, knowing that it is bad to judge them based on their material possessions. Later in the passage, he states "You think if they're intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do" (Salinger 142). I think that Holden is trying to make a point here that even though the type of suitcase one has shouldn't matter, people are naturally judgmental because they care about social status. What Holden means by money makes "you blue as hell" is that money cannot buy you happiness.

    -Shalin Nirmal

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  25. In the passage found on pages 108-109, Holden is talking about the quality of suitcases and how that affected his relationship with his roommate. Holden is constantly mocking many things that are related to the conversations, thoughts, or actions of others or himself, which is why it is fair to believe he is mocking someone or something in this passage. I believe that Holden is making fun of the way that people react to money. Holden is saying that money causes people to separate or to disagree because they overvalue the concept of money. In this passage, Holden shows how the difference between the price of the suitcases that he and his roommate had created a separation between them. This separation is due to the inferiority that Holden’s roommate was feeling for having less money, which made him try to look superior in other ways that sometimes made Holden feel annoyed. This same idea is expressed when Holden talks about his father loosing money on Broadway shows. Since many people keep overvaluing the concept of money, Holden’s mother became angry every time that his father lost money, showing once again that money causes people to disagree.
    -Cynthia Rosas

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  27. Holden, on pages 108-109, is using the suitcases as symbols of the different classes in the society today. There are people with expensive suitcases (the upper class) as well as those with cheap suitcases (the lower class), and he is mocking the society for dividing up people with the "suitcases." Holden recalls a roommate, Dick Slagle, who had a cheap suitcase, and Slagle would often put Holden's suitcase on top of his bed so that people would think it was his. Again, Holden is mocking the society's system of labeling each other based on their material belongings rather than the person himself or herself. His detailed description of Slager further adds to his desire to express that despite his cheap suitcase, his roommate was a decent person to be around and that the price of his suitcase would not be enough to show Slager truly was.

    Holden also describes, "It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them." The tone of his voice is resenting, thus expressing how he was brainwashed by the society to judge others based on their belongings. He is therefore mocking the way people cannot live without judging others and placing labels on what place they have in the social hierarchy based on their appearance. Holden is bitter that he himself is helplessly part of the system that he acknowledges to be a wrong one.

    Holden's last words in the chapter, "Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell," bolsters his resentment to the society. The amount of money dictates what part of social hierarchy you belonged to, and people are obsessed with the idea of being in the higher class to the point of not seeing others with a keen eye.

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  28. when i read this passage i have to admit i didn't pay much attention to the "mocking" of people with inexpensive suitcases. i mostly payed attention to the part where he said people asking whether you're a christian or not ruins conversations. after reanalyzing the passage, he seems to be mocking the differentiation of social classes in the world. he is mocking society for separating groups of people based on their origin, status, and money, this being done through the suitcases as symbols. people judge each other for their materials, what they own and have, instead of for who they are. His roommate Slager wanted people to think Holden's suitcase was his because it was nicer, but that would not represent who he was as a person. society has placed such a huge deal on money, letting it control our lives. without money, we wouldn't be able to survive in this world because most of our basic necessities like food, clothing, and water have to be purchased. i also agree with my classmates when they say he is mocking himself as well through this. he has conformed to society as well, becoming tied to money and becoming part of the system.

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  30. Throughout most of the book I found Holden to be quite mocking of the society that he lives in, this being based on how he mocks those who critic others who cannot afford much and are not wealthy depending on what their suitcases look like. Like a few of my peers have said, Holden knows what its like to grow up in good living. However I feel Holden is mocking society in itself and how people are so quit to judge each other and make stereotype assumptions just based on how one how single item that they carry with them, and although Holden first judges the nuns when he sees them because of the luggage they had with them. He realizes that after conversing with them they were actually quite decent people and he liked them very much. He's kind of hypocrite in some aspects because in this sense he mocks how people judge one another, however he to does it himself. When Holden says that money makes "you blue as hell." I think that he means those who are wealthy are always quicker to judge those who are of a lower status to them, and like Maia mentioned earlier too, us teenagers today are extremely influenced through social media and we tend to want to fit in with everyone else instead of being are own unique individual self because we do not want to be judged ourselves.
    - Kiyana Tejero

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  31. In my opinion, Holden criticized all these groups because it made him feel better. I think since he did not believe to a group it made him feel better to criticize those who did because he was jealous of them in a way.
    By what he said about the suitcases and catholics I think that he meant that people feel more comfortable when they talk to someone else that belongs to the same "group". Like same income or same religion. Which I actually believe to be true.

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  33. In response to Mr. Rodriguez’s question, I found that Holden’s mocking attitude does not solely pertain to capitalism. Although Holden utilizes the suitcases to represent distinct social classes, I believe that Holden attempts to mock the stratification of society as a whole rather than the specific issues (capitalism, religion, racism, sexism) that cause it. Ironically, he mocks the idea of superficial judgements by explaining, “It sounds terrible to say it” and “It isn’t important, I know." However, Holden does nothing to fix the aforementioned flaw. In fact, he frequently contributes to it. Throughout the novel, Holden is extremely critical of the majority of individuals he interacts with. He pitied the three women at the club because they were ugly and despised Ackley because of his pimply face and foul mannerisms. Unfortunately, disagreeing with a societal ideal while simultaneously contributing to its growth is common practice of the average,contemporary teenager.

    Some of my peers emphasized the fact that Holden feels uncomfortable around poor people. I agree that Holden has internalized prejudices but the superiority complex is not only in Holden but in poor people as well. For example, his roommate, Dick Slagle, mocked Holden by calling him bourgeois in attempt to insult his materialistic preferences. I realize that this cycle is prevalent in contemporary society. It is common for those in lower economic levels to feel hatred towards wealthy people due to superficial stereotypes that describe them as snobby and selfish. Therefore, discrimination among social classes is reinforced by stereotypes that fail to reflect the true character of many.

    -Lizeth Estrada

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  34. Mockery holds a great purpose in the character development in Holden Caulfield who is a preppy rich white kid who goes to top schools probably forced by his parents. Holden mocks nearly everyone and everything he can lay his eyes on or sets his mind to. for example, the nuns and their suitcases, D.B.'s ex girlfriend Lillian, even movie actors he believes are very well accomplished in their field of expertise.
    I believe Salinger intended for Holden Caulfield to be perceived as this judgmental depressed teen who seeks only for a purpose at the same time create a mockery of absolutely everything that can be himself potentially in the future. Just like you said when he mocks the girls waiting around for a husband and then continues by asking Sally Hayes to marry him.
    When Holden starts mocking the suitcases of the two nuns he meets in the breakfast diner, I believe Salinger wanted us to take a perspective on our own daily lives and think what kind of people do we surround ourselves in. Do we ourselves judge/mock people without even knowing it based on what they where and what they own? I looked deeper into the content and wondered myself if Holden is mocking something or someone, or are the suitcases an object of derision to Holden when he compares his suitcase to his roommates and talks about his mothers utter disappointment in his fathers investments in inevitable failing Broadway shows.

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  35. I agree with Negin that Holden is mocking the rich white group of people in his community because Holden lived with the same type of people throughout his life so far, the rich. The way that Holden reacts with the suitcases gives an example of how the society is like. The society is harsh, it’s separated between three classes: rich class, middle class, and the poor. These classes are all based on materialistic things and money. For example, Holden states, “I can even get to hate somebody, just by looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them” (120) showing how the upper class can be so shallow to the lower classes. I believe this is where Holden gets the word “phony” because everything is so superficial. Even his roommate calls him a “bourgeois”, which means middle class, demonstrating how the society revolves around money.

    In addition, what Holden meant when he said, “[Money] always ends up making you blue as hell” (126) is that money will make you depressed since it will make a barrier between you and other people. For example, Holden talked about how him and his roommate, Dick Slagler, had very different suitcases, cheap and expensive. Holden felt distant from Dick because they distinctly have money differences which led Dick to call Holden a “bourgeois” to mock him. Holden realizes that money makes people corrupt. For example, he says “You think if they’re intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don’t give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do” (122) demonstrates how people care materialistically and superficially showing their corruption.

    -Paola Priela

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  36. I believe that the author is trying to Mick the upper class people. Holden uses the quote:"The thing is, it's really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcases are much better than theirs--if yours are really good ones and theirs aren't." This means that people in society have gotten in their heads that the amount of money defines who you hang out with and who you don't. It is sad to know that there is still people today in the world that think this way. But then again money is what pays your house,phones,clothing,food and many more things. But that doesn't mean that just by having a better car or a bigger house or brand clothes mean that you can feel superior than anyone else. When Holden means that money can make you blue as hell he means that some people care way to much for money that they forgot that life isn't just about the money but enjoying life with your loved ones. That is what J.D. Salinger was trying to portray to all the readers. - Lithzy Alvarado

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  37. Holden feels that he is a unique individual. He does not fit in the world or fall into any category of a type of person. He condescends above everyone, because he feels that the whole world is just plain phony. J.D. Salinger tries to mock society as a whole—the way people organize themselves into groups and categories and how each group of people act. He creates Holden to be a character that does not fit in to any of these groups. He mocks the groups, because he does not fit in. he was born into a wealthy family, but he does not care too much for money. He has a weird way of judging people by paying attention to their suitcases that is not even common for the bourgeios. I agree with Paola when she says that this situation with Holden and Dick parallels the treatment of upper class members of society towards lower class members. Upper class members look down at them because they can't afford such things. Holden does not really look down at society the way that most rich people do, but JD Salinger made an exception for the suitcase situation in order to include some irony.
    -Risvi Tareq

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  38. Holden is a very individualistic and confident character, not afraid to insult anyone to speak his mind out. Throughout the novel Holden tends to call nearly everyone he's ever met a "phony." Anyone who doesn't seem to agree with his point of a view really he calls a phony. In the case of the suitcases (no pun intended) Holden shows discontent at his roommate Dick Slagle over trying to pose himself as a better individual by masking Holden's suitcase as his own. He mocks the character of Slagle, unable to be transparent with others and show his true self. He mocks Slagle and most of society's tendency to show a facade of themselves to gain favor or status in society instead of showing who they really are.

    In the perspective of money, Holden mocks the idea of using money to again impress others and gain social status. He despises the need to spend or use money only to impress one another. Holden simply likes people who are themselves, and won't try to change themselves in public. This concept is clearly evident when Holden defends his signature orange hunting hat, to which Ackley and Stradlater find ugly.

    -Kyle Mapanao

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  40. As many of my peers have already mentioned, I also think that Holden is mocking society in this overall chapter. Holden reinforces the notion that he, and most of society, is quick to judge people based on their appearances. The story about his old roommate Dick Slagle, as well as the Catholic boy, Louis Shaney, not only discusses the importance of social cliques but I also believe that it shows how Holden is unsuccessful in finding a true friend. This is seen in how neither of these people were able to remain as close friends with Holden. With him not being able to find a true friend, Holden will resort to confiding only in certain people. His sister, Phoebe, his friend, Jane Gallagher, and even his deceased brother, Allie.
    -Josef Urrete

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  41. As we read this passage, we can tell that Holden at first directly mocks the nurses on their cheap suitcases. However, then he then dives into how absurd people are for judging people for having a better suitcase. Indirectly, he mocks himself for judging the nuns so fast, especially when he ends up finding how much he enjoyed talking to the nuns.
    Holden also mocks how certain labels are given to certain people. For example, how he gets classified as a bourgeois simply for the fact that he has a better suitcase. At the end of talking to the nuns, he further mocks the existence of cliques/groups. The effort to find people who are in the same "clique" as you is what Holden mocks. He dislikes how people constantly try to find people of the same classification as them, without considering their personality.
    He indirectly mocks at how much our society values money. We try so hard to get money, even though it makes us very sad at the end. Our reliance on money has the reverse effect and instead makes us depressed when we don't have enough money. Holden hates how much he needs money. It limits what he wants to do, even when he wants to be generous, and it forces him to conserve on his actions.

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  42. On pages 108-109, Holden mocks people who are materialistic in a sense. Holden grows up in a mildly wealthy household and has a clear understanding of how it feels growing up around others who also have money. In a way, I feel as if Holden is making a strong point in how possessing money makes people feel entitled and judgmental. Growing up with his background of wealth has made him also judge others on their materialistic goods. It has become second nature to him when he confesses, “It isn’t important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them” (Salinger 108). When he encounters the nuns, his first reaction is to their cheap and inexpensive suitcases. His mocking and judgmental behavior have stemmed from growing up wealthy and privileged. I feel as if the comparison between Catholics and suitcases shine a light on how people fall in social categories. We tend to lean towards people who have the same beliefs or materials so we feel more connected.

    -Celeste Lettieri

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  43. I think that Holden's mocking attitude comes from the world in which he was raised. Considering that Holden's father is a lawyer, Holden's family is very well off, financially speaking. Holden is also a white male attending prep schools, making him quite privileged. I do not think he is intentionally mocking the nuns for their suitcases, but rather noticing that they are of lower quality than his own suitcases. I think noticing the differences in their suitcases upsets Holden because he realizes that not everyone is allowed the same luxuries as he is. Although suitcases may seem like an arbitrary thing to be upset over, the quality of one's possessions often reflect one's social status or class. This obsession over status can be seen in pages 120-122 where Holden's old roommate wants others to believe that he has nice suitcases. In this scene, Salinger emphasizes peoples desire to be liked or accepted based on the monetary value of one's possessions, no matter how insignificant these items may be.

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  44. Caulfield's attitude seem to stem from both his outlook on life and the type of life that he has. In almost every chapter he criticizes something, whether it be religion, looks, or materialistic goods Caulfields got something to say. I think that his attitude is brought on because of how well off his family, as his father is a lawyer. One of the instances I can remember most clearly is when Caulfield was talking about two nuns' luggages. He was offended by how cheap they looked and that brought on a memory of his when he was at Penecy. His roommate had cheap luggage too and would put it on the rack that they had in their room. This made Caulfield feel bad because of how pretty and expensive his own luggage was, to the point that he wanted to either trade with his roommate or throw out his luggage. Caulfield understands how the world works. He knew that eventually jealousy would get the better of his roommate due to his inferiority complex, so he was switched to bunk with someone who had the same type of class that he did with his luggage. It was both a humorous and eye opening character moment for me. I never really thought about how wealthy he was in the book. Sure he boasted about having lots of money, and he was constantly spending it. He bought a hotel room, tickets to some kind of concert, a prostitute, ice skating with Sally, lots and lots of drinks, a record, and he even gave money to charity. Looking at that his social standings probably played a lot into his constant critical eye.
    -Anayah Carpio

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  45. The conversation about the suitcases, is indeed a metaphor and comparison of social classes. The word bourgeois, which is in reference to Holden's suitcase is in essence, describing it as a middle class materialistically. In this boarding school where everyone is wealthy including Holden this is meant as an insult. Holden furthers this theme by discussing the nuns as being inexpensive looking, like his.However confusing it seems as though Holden is saying he could get along better with these nuns then his own roommate, as he compares the personality of people to their suitcases.If Holden is mocking anyone, it would be the individuals with expensive suitcases as he seems to identify with the others. This scence also playing into the theme of the book, as even through materialistic items, Holden trying it identify himself, as well as connect to others, while he also trying to create visible differences between himself and his rich peers he deems as "phonies". Holden accepts the insult and seems to exaggerate it further by then comparing his suitcase to others, in an effort to differentiate himself as he leave the people he does not fit in with.
    -Janelle Stradford

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  46. I agree with Joshua's statement in which Holden mocks people that have less money than he does as well as materialistic goods and by looks. Holden is too quick to judge because like Joshua said, his roomate and the nuns had inexpensive suitcases, making Holden judge them by thinking that they're poor, but as soon as he strikes a conversation with them, he enjoys talking with them, Holden even tries to look for the nuns while waiting for Phoebe at the museum. Society today has an issue of being quick to judge, which is why I think Holden is such an interesting character because he possesses the traits that a teenager today has. This situation claims that Holden is quick to judge, but once he gets to know them, then he switches up and actually enjoys spending time with them

    - Ryan Dasmarinas

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  48. Salinger uses symbolism to express his opinion on the social classes. Using Holden's candid language, Salinger implies that different social classes do not bond well together. His assumption is general and applies to all social classes- that being the idea that materialistic objects can influence who you are. The suitcases, in this case, give an indication of a person's origin and upbringing. In this suitcase scene, Dick Slagle pretended that Holden's bags were his, meaning that those of the lower class will always attempt to become like the higher class. Once all the unbiased judgement is erased as one grows up, one wants to be surrounded by people with similar opportunities instead of having a relationship where someone is playing catch up- that is the point Salinger wants to emphasize even though it sound harsh. Despite this, there are rare occasions where this is not true as it is evident with the nuns, where Holden ironically ends up enjoying their company even though they possessed inexpensive suitcases- meaning that they were from a lower class. This ends up mocking the nature a human has to judge people based on materialistic measures even though unfortunately, that is the way people tend to think and Holden feels sorry to have that same initial thought.

    By mentioning the fact that Catholics try to find out if someone else is also Catholic, it can be perceived as finding out if someone is labeled by society. Holden states that it spoils the conversation because before knowing that information, two people are bonding for who they are as a human. Once they know what society labels them as, people tend to develop their own opinion that might affect their relationship. In the case with the Catholics, Salinger is mocking the way friendships are formed until one truly knows how society views the other person.

    -David Wilson

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  49. I would like to focus on the suitcase discussion alongside my classmates, but I'd like to add something most are not addressing. On my dialectical journal. I picked this quote to analyze: "It's one of the reasons I roomed with a stupid bastard like Stradlater. At least his suitcases were as good as mine." Without having read this thread,I automatically assumed Holden thought of suitcases as status symbols that represent the life you live, the money you make, etcetera. I found it comical that Holden is able to put up with a bad personality he is not compatible with just because his suitcase is as nice as his. To me, it is hypocritical for Holden and I was let down that he thought this way.
    In the part where he is having breakfast with the nuns and he feels bad that they are having a breakfast that he would not consider good compared to his, I empathized with him and understood his feelings of pity, and it gave me hope that Holden would recuperate throughout the story and not be depressed any longer. However this hypocritical and ironic statement of his made me lose hope. I say ironic because he pessimistically spends time criticizing others yet he will put aside a good person to room simply because the possibility that their suitcase may not be as good as his. Holden sets himself up for depression thinking this closed-mindedly, if he surrounded himself with positive people he could be compatible with, he would not have gotten into a fight with his own roommate, he would not have to be asked to do their homework, and he would probably be a little happier if he had not made such a crude remark.

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  51. Personally, I saw the suitcases, as well as Holden's digression regarding them, as an analogy for wealth and separation between economic classes. Coming from a wealthy, well-off family, Holden is possibly referring to the rift at the time; there were apparent economic struggles in the 1950s after World War II and the New Deal. (A stretch, but worth mentioning)

    From a more general standpoint, though, Holden does make arbitrary judgments about other people, seemingly based on physical appearance/his own bias. The suitcases may serve as a means of explicating Holden's internal judgments, as shown when he bluntly states "It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases." (I'm still trying to figure him out)

    -Andre Yee

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  52. When Holden describes the suitcases, it is a symbol of how people of different economic classes do not usually engage with one another because of prejudice. Holden seems to be judging the type of people who believe the value of a person is seen through the objects they own. However, he fails to realize that he is also one of those people. He notices that the nuns both have inexpensive suitcases, and it makes sense that they are together because they both cannot afford more expensive suitcases. If one of the nuns had an expensive suitcase and the other didn't, Holden would most likely be confused and not understand why someone of a higher economic class would be seen with someone in a lower class than them. I can come to this conclusion because Holden himself states that "It's one of the reasons I roomed with a stupid bastard like Stradlater. At least his suitcases were as good as mine." Holden admits to picking Stradlater as a roommate not entirely because he thought he was a interesting guy, but because they both had expensive materialistic items. Holden comes off as very hypocritical, and I see a pattern of this throughout the book. He also comes off as hypocritical when he says that he hates phonies but lies to people about who he is and even makes up lies about other people. An example of this is when he talks to the mother of one of his classmates on the train and invents stories about him. He even goes as far as telling the woman he has a brain tumor.
    -Daniela Nolasco

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  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  54. I believe the suitcases are symbolic, in that they represent societal standards and the differences between the classes. Holden has been taught, growing up in a wealthy home, to only buy the most expensive and luxurious items simply because he can afford it. He is used to being around the best of the best and will most likely criticize what is not. It's naive to believe that in modern society we still do not reduce ourselves into following these patterns. It's in human nature to judge others based on materialistic objects. Therefore, upon first glance Holden automatically stereotypes the nuns as a class beneath him because of the suitcases they possess. However, this does not stop him from allowing himself to enjoy the company of the nuns. Even though it's been ingrained into Holden that he only associate with others of his "rank" he chooses to be rebellious and break the norms of which he's been taught. In regards to what he is mocking, it can be inferred that he has a distaste for the rift that is between social classes based on wealth.
    -Andrea Pagano

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  55. Holden feels that he is a unique individual, that doesn't fit in the world. He believes he is above everyone, because he feels that the world is phony. J.D. Salinger tries to make fun of the way the society groups everyone and how each group of people act towards each other. Holden is character is to be a character that doesn't fit in with any groups. He makes fun of the groups, because he doesn't fit in. He was born into a wealthy family, but he doesn't care about the money. He has a particular way of judging people by their suitcases that isn't common for anyone. I agree with Paola when she said that the situation with Holden and Dick parallels with the treatment of the upper class towards lower class. Upper class members look down at the lower classes because they can't afford what the upper classes can afford. Holden does not really look down at society the way that most of the upper class does, but JD Salinger made an exception for the suitcase situation in order to include irony in this event.

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  56. It was brought to my attention that Holden mocks a variety of things throughout the book, one in particular was the type of suitcase you had. The conversation about the suitcases on pages 108-109 suggest what social class you fall under.If you had an expensive suitcase you were either in the middle or high class and if you had an inexpensive suitcase you were part of the lower class. On page 121-122 Holden is saying that it is hard to get along with someone whose suitcases aren't as good as your own. For example he was quick to judge the nuns suitcases when he saw them on the train but the thing is that he was able to get get along with them. This reveals that Holden loaths the wealthy personality wise which is also evident when he says “it's one of the reasons why i roomed with a stupid bastard like Stradlater.” Since Holden is known to have a very negative attitude it led me to believe that in the passage he is mocking someone or something.

    -Alexis Gaskin

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  57. When analyzing the suitcases in this segment of the novel, Holden seems to have a mocking attitude towards people are materialistic and how Holden relationship with money has brought him down through out the novel. As what some of my peers mention earlier, in that Holden does not considered himself any particular class, most likely due to him to wanting to be like "majority" of people he tends to mock. His attitude towards class may also be from his incident with Dick Slage, As Holden did seem to generally appreciate having Dick around but it was mainly due to the quality of their suitcases that ended with them requesting to move from each other. I also agree with Jassin Reyes that when it comes to money Holden is not able to bring true happiness to himself, especially when he was given money by his sister Phoebe near the end of the novel, Holden began to cry as he felt that his sister sacrificing her own needs in order to make himself happy, which is ironic since Holden almost spent most of his money throughout the novel.

    -Daniel R. Diaz

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  58. It was brought to my attention that Holden mocks a variety of things throughout the book, one in particular was the type of suitcase you had. The conversation about the suitcases on pages 108-109 suggest what social class you fall under.If you had an expensive suitcase you were either in the middle or high class and if you had an inexpensive suitcase you were part of the lower class. On page 121-122 Holden is saying that it is hard to get along with someone whose suitcases aren't as good as your own. For example he was quick to judge the nuns suitcases when he saw them on the train but the thing is that he was able to get get along with them. This reveals that Holden loaths the wealthy personality wise which is also evident when he says “it's one of the reasons why i roomed with a stupid bastard like Stradlater.” Since Holden is known to have a very negative attitude it led me to believe that in the passage he is mocking someone or something.

    -Alexis Gaskin

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  59. I like the way Holden thinks, he has a different perspective than most teenagers of his time, and although that is part of the problem as to why he is so disconnected with the people around him, his thoughts are quite reflective. His witty and cynical remarks to things such as adults and prep schools tend to hide the deeper meaning of what he states. The way he mocks adults, students and the typical things he sees adds to his idea that most people act phony. When he talks about the suitcases on page 108-109, I do not think he is mocking anybody. Analyzing the situation with the suitcases allows the reader to discover a deeper meaning of them. I guess instead of mocking someone; Holden is questioning society’s established differences. Throughout the book I thought that Holden’s mocking attitude was more for a mental questioning as to why things are the way they are. He states that a person with cheaper suitcases cannot be with a person who owns expensive ones, and if you change the setting but keep the general context of the aforementioned idea, it’s kind of true for other things. A person with little money could not get along with a person who is more well off due to society’s predisposed attitude towards the importance of money. I mean, we have separated neighborhoods in two sections: the nicer one’s are obviously where the people with “expensive suitcases” live and the rundown sections is where people with “cheaper suitcases” lived. All in all, I think Holden if mocking the separation between people due to superficial things that morally shouldn’t matter but do. He repeats this idea when he mentions how Catholics are always trying to find out if others are Catholic too which he describes as being a conversation killer. Holden feels like an outcast himself so anything that creates differences between people like money, religion, and social status which hinders a development of a friendship bothers him so he resorts to mocking it in hopes that eventually others will find it ridiculous as he does too.
    -Alexis Rodriguez

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  60. While reading this novel, I noticed that Holden mocks individuals who have less money than him. Because of that, he creates a harsh judgement about them before he gets to know them. For example, there is a scene where he runs into two nuns and makes the assumption that they do not have a lot of money because of the way their suitcases look. He makes the assumption that if you have an expensive suitcase that you are a part of the middle and/or higher class. If you have a suitcase that looks inexpensive then you were automatically put into the lower class. I have noticed that after Holden would judge somebody, he would try and take back what he said by giving them a vague compliment then immediately changing his thoughts to another topic. Holden was raised in a society where it is normal to judge others before they make a lasting impression on him. And to this day, many individuals are raised in a society where they are brought up to judge others, and sadly, it is considered to be normal. He was also, in a way, mocking society because it seems that the better and more expensive your materials are, you are considered to be wealthy. But the less expensive and rundown your materials are, you are considered to be a part of the lower class.

    -Ayauna Cunningham

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  61. As pointed out my fellow peers, Holden is mocking the society that presumes if you have a more expensive and luxurious items you are a better human being. He was depressed about seeing Dick Slagle’s suitcases were cheaper while he had high priced suitcases. Since Holden felt bad, he voluntarily puts his away so that Dick would not be embarrassed. Ironically, Dick puts them up back on the rack as he pretends those are his in order for others to view him as a person from a higher class. I have to agree with Allan’s comment on how Holden judges people based on their materialistic possessions. He knows that he does it himself and he hates it. Apparently, Holden can not please Dick; every time Dick borrows one of Holden he describes as “bourgeois” which means “upholding the interests of capitalism. I think that Dick should not say that since he uses the things he consider “bourgeois.” Holden then states “...it’s really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcases are much better than theirs - if yours are really good ones and theirs aren’t.” I do not think Holden actually thinks like this and the society that he is in is causing him to think that way.

    Holden declaring that money can make “you blue as hell” is true due to the fact money causes problems in numerous instances. For example, if you spend too much money, you would not have enough for emergencies or actual needs.

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  62. What Salinger brings into light in this passage is the belief that diversity and first impressions impact relationships immensely whether we'd prefer it to or not. Although this novel was published nearly 70 years ago, this trend exists in modern society. It is not unusual for an individual to immediately assume something of another person simply based on what they see. For instance, the two different quality suitcases resemble how individuals judge one another based on the clothes they wear. Holden even recognizes how arbitrary his thinking is by claiming "it isn't important", but it is something that he just cannot help, much like individuals today.

    As for the instance in which Holden mentions how those who are Catholic immediately ask for your religion, thus ruining the conversation, Holden makes an interesting point. He states that it is not until they ask that question that the conversation is ruined. It is not until they establish a difference between them and Holden that Holden begins to feel uncomfortable. Here Holden makes an eye opening statement. He is suggesting that if we were not aware of what separates us, we would be able to get along much easier. He is proving that if we were to look past what society claims separates us, our relations will not be ruined.

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  63. In this specific incident where Holden is talking about the cheap suitcases, a more sensitive side to his personality was revealed. He mocks the upper class many times throughout the novel for being too judgemental. He explains how people are so quick to judge someone just by simply glancing at their luggage. This relates a lot to the present day because many people judge people based off of their material items. Holden does not tolerate the “rich lifestyle” at all. For instance, when his old roommate had very cheap luggage, he noticed that he always put them away where they were not visible to others, however Holden’s nice suitcases were always visible. Holden decided to put his away so that his roommate would not feel inferior to him. He hated when people felt inferior to them. Also, when Holden was conversing with the nuns he realized that they had cheap suitcases yet he was still very respectful towards the nuns. This is a very good trait that Holden maintains throughout the novel so far and I think that as people read “The Catcher in the Rye” they will learn from this.
    -Caroline Beel

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  64. Looking back and analyzing the pages I realized the significance that Mr. Rodriguez and my peers have pointed out. The first time I read the pages I had not realized that the suit cases were significant. As my peers have stated I found that Holden criticizes and mocks the nuns in the novel due to the inexpensive suitcases they have. Holden is different from his classmates because we know that he does not live the rich stereotypical lifestyle that his classmates at Pency live however he is quick to judge and criticize. I interpreted Holden’s mockery as a way to abstain himself from following societies norms. For example, when he first saw the nuns he was quick to judge and criticize by seeing the inexpensive suitcases they had. He later realizes that the nuns are good people and that the suitcases don’t define who they are. In doing so Holden’s mockery is utilized as a way to describe the fact that people often judge without knowing them based on what they wear or the way they act. It’s all thanks to societies stereotypical views which are still followed today.

    By ending the passage in saying that money makes “you blue as hell,” I believe Salinger is referring to the saying “money doesn’t buy happiness.” Holden throughout the novel is generous and always offers to buy others drinks (girls, cab drivers) however he still states that he feels lonesome and depressed.
    -Nubia Alvarez

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  65. Since the very beginning of the story, Holden’s mocking attitude has been evident throughout. Although the scene on pages 108 to 109 I don't believe holden is mocking anyone specifically, simply jealously as a whole. Jealousy is common among all of us whether we like to admit it or not. Mainly, although not always, it is usually the ones that have more money and luxury items than the others who wish that they had the same and more. To try to explain this to the reader Holden uses his suitcases and his roommate's to show that it could be hard to have a relationship with someone who has cheaper things than you. For example, when his roommate, Elkton Hills called him "bourgeois", he only thought that way because of the stuff Holden owned, but at the same time used Holden's stuff to make him seem like he is in higher class. Holden discovered that it is difficult to have a proper relationship with someone who judges you because of how much money you may own. This also ties into Holden bringing up the Catholic religion. He views religion and money to have the same effect in a good relationship. For many, religion is a very important thing and if someone was to say they weren't too religious the conversation would turn from whatever they were talking about and onto that one point. They would wonder why, and maybe change point of views on you. I think this is why Holden judges religion.

    -Alyssa Ariza

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  66. It seems to me that Holden is mocking the people who feel that they are (or are not, depending on the situation) entitled to something solely because of their social status, wealth, upbringing, religion, or other labels that appear to be the determining factors of what they’re worth and who they deserve to associate themselves with. The “bourgeois” nature of this judgement -- toward his schoolmates, the nuns, and even objects as simple as suitcases -- reveal a truth that society tends to see people for their materialistic value, rather than the value of the person themselves. This is shown in the scene in which Holden encounters the nuns. From the narrator’s seemingly offensive stance on the nuns’ simplicity in their diets and suitcases, it is clear that there is a barrier that keeps Holden from truly acquainting himself with them; which, ironically, is undoubtedly an example of what he was mocking in the first place. This is justifiable in the notion that there is clearly a lingering “bourgeois” mentality in his subconscious -- to be more specific, he seems to feel a sense of guilt -- or possibly even pride -- over the fact that the nuns do not appear to be as “privileged” as shown by the simple nature of their life (which, to Holden, is revealed through their material goods, like a humble breakfast consisting of toast and coffee). Perhaps the narrator thus expresses that money makes “you blue as hell” in page 113 because wealth determines the extent of one’s relationship with another based on the quantity and quality of their possessions. In fact, Dick Slagle (Holden’s roommate with the “depressing” suitcases) serves an example of what Holden was mocking and exemplifying, except he was closer the lower end of the social ladder. Through sharing the story of his roommate’s act of using Holden’s suitcases to climb the previously mentioned social ladder at Elkton Hills and to feel a sense of belonging within the community of privileged, preppy kids, it was clear that acquiring entitlement to things as valuable as friendships became shallow just because people judged others based on their belongings.

    My peer Alyssa also brings up a very important point about religion in that some people judge others based on their perspective on spiritual faith. To many, even today, the topic of religion is very sensitive, and can offend others or kill a conversation depending on how the idea is presented. Interestingly enough, I commented on this in my dialectical journal by saying that while we are growing to become more accepting of varying views on debatable topics like spiritual beliefs, there still remains a lingering and subtle line between the religious and nonreligious as evidenced by the way that we act so carefully when speaking about it in order to avoid miscommunications or false assumptions. Moreover, in regards to the concept of belonging that I discussed earlier, there is a tendency for some people to interact with or distance themselves from other people based on their religious views. I am not very sure if this has to do with people worrying about others influencing their opinions on religion, but it is very fascinating to see that this tension was not unfamiliar to the people in the mid-1900s.

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  67. Simply put I think this mocking attitude that Holden has is just him being extremely judge mental. Think about in todays time, could you imagine someone saying you could not be friends because your suitcase was cheap? Maybe it was natural during his time but from my point of view I think Holden views materialistic things that contain a persons worth. Like at the club for example, he did not negatively judge the three women with the hats, but because of the hats they had he assumed they were out of town then automatically separated the "cute" girl of the group from the "ugly" ones.

    -Isaiah Wilson

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  68. Holden has made a connection between financial stability and its effect on his relationships with other people. the concept of money and wealth surround Holden throughout the entire novel. he has always attended expensive preparatory schools and gets expensive materialistic gifts such as the ice skates his mother set him. the effect of always having access to money and resources led to Holdens' connection that money is a object that can purchase "happiness". i believe that since Holden has never really been able to make connections with others in order to feel happy, money provides a sense of satisfaction that fills the void. i believe that is why Holden referred to the difference in suitcases and relationships. such a large difference in materialistic quality of items such as the suitcases, in his mind means that there will be an equally large difference in understanding between the people that own them.

    i believe Holden holds this same connection for the topic of religion. for example in the situation with the two nuns he said he was glad that they didn't ask if he was catholic because it would "ruin" the conversation. he doesn't want the difference in beliefs, just as the difference in financial standing, to break the relationship between them.

    These invisible barriers of money and religion were built by Holden as a defense mechanism in order to keep himself from getting hurt by others.

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  69. When Holden mentions about the suitcases I couldn't understand at first, but then I understood that it is not due to the fact that Holden doesn't like people who aren't rich. Instead, he knows that if there is a friendship between these two type of people there will be conflicts between them two. That when the person who has a higher economic level will get new things the friend might feel uncomfortable and may want the same things. In the future, these type of things will affect their relationship and will make it very uncomfortable for both of them.

    I don't think he is really trying to mock anyone, it is simply that things are the way he says they are. It does have to do with money, because for a life full of luxury and expensive schools money plays the biggest role in making this possible. In today's society many friendships or groups are influenced or formed by their economic status, depending on how much money someone has that is how many friendship are formed. This is something that even with the many years that have passed this is still occurring today in our society. However, money can sometimes lead to the exclusion of many others that don't have the same economic availability. This breaks my heart because it shows that as human beings we look at material things instead of looking in someone's heart and emotions.

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  70. Even though Holden does seem to mock or talk bad about people who are materialistic, it seems like it may be for a reason. Being the son of a lawyer, he comes from a family with money to spend, giving him a perspective of how it is to live life among the rich. Perhaps he has seen what money can do to men and there for criticizes them. Even in the chapter where Holden meets the nuns having breakfast, he says,"...money.It always ends up making you blue as hell". I believe Holden isn't really mocking anyone. He just explains to the audience his belief is on the subject. He does though tend to be more friendly to those who have less. Such is with the nuns he meets and when he does mock people, they are usually higher social status.He sees how lower class people do just well without any expensive clothing or materials, such as suitcases. It seems that Holden's whole story seems to be about social status and fitting in.

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    1. I agree with your statement, Holden does not judge individuals by their monetary worth. In fact, Holden cares more about how an individual acts and how their personality is much more than he cares about their social status or their wealth. This is quite surprising, seeing as Holden, an individual from a family of much wealth, has not grown up dependent on his family's money (in a psychological and emotional sense). For many, money is a crutch, something material that gives them comfort. This is another reason that Holden hates Hollywood. Hollywood makes it seem that the only people who are worth anything are those who have the money to pay for unnecessary luxuries.

      Xavier Sanchez

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  71. In many parts of the story we can visualize how Holden contradicts himself for example at the begging of the Nobel he acts childish "I sometimes act like I'm twelve" and then he contradicts himself by trying to act mature "sometimes I act a lot older than I am- I really do". On pages 108 and 109 Holden contradicts himself again by criticizing how people prejudice other people based off their suit cases meaning that people judge other's social status depending on how expensive someone's suitcases appear to be. However he contradicts himself by judging nuns and mocking them based off their materialistic goods. What's interesting is that Holden does not come form a poor family, he is actually the son of a lawyer and his family appear to have good income, due to the fact that Holden has been on prep schools. Holden compares how people that are catholic are always trying to find out if other's are catholic to how people judge others from the quality of their suitcases. Because they both portraits how some people are friends with others due to their religious background or their wealth and it shouldn't be like that. I believe that what Holden is trying to say when he says that money makes you "blue as hell" on page 113 is that even tough he has spent a lot of money the last couple of days his internal pain in not over.

    -Agustin Richardson

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  72. I believe that Holden is actually mocking society as a whole. He is describing how the American people have been taken in by capitalism and how because of this, many people judge others and live their lives according to income. He is describing how it is difficult for people or families with wage differences to coexist closely with one another. He is describing how the wage gap has been interpreted as just that, a gap between people. He realizes this when his roommate is jealous of his higher class by comparing suitcases and calling Holden “bourgeois.” He further connects this to religion and how Catholics are trying to figure out if the other person is a Catholic. I believe Holden is describing twentieth century “boxes” that people sort each other into. He mocks these “boxes,” seeing them as unnecessary and dislikes the idea of people filing under categories and only relating with people I the same category. He is glad to see the nuns so unaffected by the twentieth century standards of rich only being with the rich and religious people only being with other people of the same religion. Overall, the passage itself allows us to look within the twentieth century standards and makes me question if we continue that up to now.
    -Seth Yves Perez

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  73. I think Holden mocks others expecting to get a feeling of satisfaction. He ridicules the things those around him by emphasizing the things that he is most displeased with. I think it’s a bit hypocritical. While I was reading chapter 20, I kept thinking that if sober Holden were to see his drunk self from an outside view point, he would probably call himself a phony and say something along the lines of "man that sonuvabitch is a real phony, thinking he got shot”. He even called himself a madman: “When I’m drunk, I’m a madman.” Many people drink to cope with their emotions but that doesn’t seem to be the case for Holden. In fact, when he was sitting on the bench at the park, his mind trailed back to Allie and how depressed and lonesome he felt. Holden pensive and depressive thoughts seem to always haunt him and there isn’t much he can do to rid himself of those kinds of thoughts. I think that’s why he mocks everyone, it seems to be a coping mechanism for him.

    Holden compares Catholicism to the luggages by saying that they are both “no good for a nice conversation.” Earlier he mentioned that his roommate, Dick Slagle, would put Holden’s expensive luggage on display in order to get others to think they were his. It’s ironic considering that Dick had previously said “snotty things about them” like how “they were too new and bourgeois”. I think that Holden is implying that money and status ruin nice conversations because it gives people a superiority complex. By the end of the chapter, Holden states that money “always ends up making you blue as hell”, essentially tying back to his belief that expensive luggages ruin a "nice conversation”.

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    1. I concur with your statement that his cynicism is a coping mechanism. I believe that most of his emotional issues come from Allie's death. As I have mentioned in other posts, it is implied that Holden did not receive the closure he needed with Allie as a result of his untimely demise: He breaks all of the garage windows after Allie's death. Holden's disillusionment with society may have began because he had to deal with his losses by himself, and was not mature enough to understand.

      Additionally, this might be why he hates the idea of people working to figure out other people's inner thoughts. Holden uses his mocking attitude as a way to hide his emotions, as he also hides information from the reader as well (Like when he tells the audience he is a virgin after implying he was sexually active). He holds several repressed emotions and may be afraid that those around him are trying to judge him. This is one meaning regarding his statements on Catholicism. He does not seem to mind that others are Catholic, but despises when Catholics try to figure out if he was a Catholic. In other words, he is arguing that people focus too much on certain traits. Holden has emotional issues, and he hides that from those around him in fear that they will judge him for those characteristics.

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  74. I want to point out how initially I did not give much attention to the suitcases Holden mentions, but now analyzing and reflecting on this part in the novel, I can see how the situation reflects a much larger concept.

    Indeed Holden states he enjoys the presence of the nuns in the train, despite the fact their suitcases are not as materialistic as his. But yet, when with his roommate who calls him "bourgeois", he admits he cannot be friends with someone who simply has a less well-presented suitcase. Either way, thinking about all this on a more analytical level, I realize how Holden does not say this to seem like he only cares about the difference in suitcases, but rather he makes these odd comments to tell us he mocks factors like prep schools, Catholicism, fancy suitcases, etc., because he does not support them. He does not like prep schools, and the concept of acting preppy simply because of money. He also mocks the Catholic religion, as many wealthy people are Catholic and they share their wealth with the church including the pope. Finally, he mocks materialistic things such as suitcases, because it is through these things people feel they have to conform to society and they have to compete to look of high class, instead of accepting differences with money.

    I believe this all is meant to mock the capitalist system in the U.S that has people competing for wealth, and having to struggle with depending on others for money and reassurance. In other types of government systems like communism, we see people having the same available needs and with no competition. However, in the U.S. that is not the case, and the author communicates his criticism of the system through Holden and his mocking of different social aspects, that tie one down to conformity, just like it has happened to his brother D.B Caulfield.

    The last thing I would like to comment on pertaining to this discussion, is my opinion about the quote that money always ends up making you "blue as hell." When I read this I started to think about moments in my life when my parents have mentioned to me, that money can only make someone happy to a certain extent. When one has enough money, one is happy and satisfied. But when a person holds too much money, happiness is affected, and in many cases wealth does not bring all good to the life of a person. My parents have always communicated this to me and in a way I have come to believe that having just the right amount of money necessary is what helps a person be happy with their living situation, but having excess money can always provoke problems. With this I can say I relate to the quote, except I do not believe money can always make us blue, or in other words sad; but in the case when one does have excess money, you cannot ensure happiness.

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  75. The author emphasizes the importance of the suitcases due to Holden past experiences as well as his social class he is apart of due to his wealth. Holden does not mock those with lower income he gives his perspective on those who are prejudice for instance Dick Slagle who characterizes Holden as bourgeois which means middle class, materialistic values or conventional attitudes. Holden explains "the thing is, it's really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcase are much better than theirs- if yours are really good ones and theirs aren't you think if there intelligent and all, other person, and a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn whose suitcase are better, but they do." Holden view of society is that that its separated in wealth and religion. When the nuns entered Holden said he could hate someone by just looing at there suitcase, but he found the nuns to be very nice. Holden judged a book by it's cover but he brought up religion to show that there differences wouldn't allow them to exactly be anything more than an acquaintance. IN having so much money Holden will miss out on many of the thing that would make him happy like his father who tries to spend money any where he can to feel the void.

    -Jasmine Rivas

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  76. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  77. When Holden is explaining that one can be judged by the suitcases the carry I believe he is mocking society and how they differentiate the rich and the poor by their belongings, or in this case if you can be seen with them at school. Although he is mocking those people he admits he does it as well, which he admits is a problem. When Holden states, “it’s really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcases are much better than theirs - if yours are really good ones and theirs aren’t." I believe he feels as if his roommate is embarrassed to have cheaper suitcases because of the way people criticize others by viewing their belongings. When he states that money makes you "blue as hell"he is explaining the effects that money can have on people. By stating that money makes one blue, I believe he means that it makes some people greedy and that it could make people think they are superior than all people.

    -Dariana Nieves

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  78. When I first read about the suitcases it was clear to me that they represented who you were as a person, if you were lower class, middle class, or upper class. What I have learned about Holden is that he is a person who judges people but doesn't say anything he keeps it to himself. I think that he is not mocking anyone is specific but those who aren't proud of what they have. For example, when one of Holden's roommates would hide his old suitcases but show off Holden's new one as if those were both of theirs. The passage that Holden says that money can make you blue as hell connects with those who try to show off whats not their or even with what is theirs. With the quote that money can make you blue as hell means that money can make you seem as such an arrogant person who only cares to show off what they have to those less fortunate. His worry about his dad loosing money in Broadway is not really about his dad but about himself. He will be worried about where to get money from in order to go out and drink and disappear for a while.
    -Briana Nieves

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  79. Certain events in the story, similar to the ones with the suitcases, were difficult for me to fully understand at first. However, in this particular scene, Holden slowly relays an underlying, mocking tone as he describes his thoughts on something as simple as suitcases. When Holden is first talking about the nuns' suitcases, he seems to be mocking people in general who have the cheap, inexpensive suitcases. However, as he goes deeper into this unusual topic, he mocks his friend Slagle who trades his suitcases for Holden's bourgeois suitcases to have people think they were his bags. In those moments, he has a mocking tone directed towards the people he is talking about. However, overall he seems to just state his thinking when he talks about how one with expensive suitcases cannot be with on with cheap suitcases. It could be a money thing because he attends a prep school and usually these students come from families with money. Also, Holden could be addressing the reality of how the distinctions between having it all and just having it. Again though, this was difficult for me to fully understand why he would choose suitcases to explain his thoughts. What is it exactly about the nuns' suitcases that made him start thinking about the relationship between expensive and inexpensive suitcases?
    -Leiana Lepule

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  80. Salinger composed this chapter effectively to show the similarity between the suitcases and religion. We understand Holden is an alienated teenager who has exceedingly high standards for everything but in the end wants to fit in somewhere. The suitcases were symbols of financial status and it served as a means to impede Holden's ability to connect with people. Similarly, when Louis Shaney wanted to know if Holden was Catholic, the conversation they were having did not continue to be fun. Religion and wealth differences are just ways that prevent Holden to interact freely with people. When barriers like this exist, it only depresses him more because he feels further isolated from a society he wants to fit into.
    -Alan Contreras

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  81. I agree with my peers that the comparison of the different types of suitcases serve to demonstrate the differences in financial or even social status. This seems to be something that Holden is trying to escape and avoid. Religion also is something that Holden is faced with constantly and he does not seem to enjoy speaking about it but just like the idea of a difference in social classes, he can't seem to escape it. Similarly, like my classmate Alan successfully stated, both religion and financial or social status are something that keep Holden from being able to speak with people.

    -Mariana Simmons

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  82. In the passage where Holden is talking about suitcases, he is making fun of his roommate Dick Slagle, or more particularly the middle- class people who make it seem like they are wealthier than they are. When Slagle calls Holden bourgeois, Holden is offended because he thinks Slagle is the one who is materialistic. Holden feels sorry that his roommate puts so much effort into looking wealthier, and that is why he does not want a relationship with him.

    I do not think Holden cares about money. When he left Pencey, Holden had almost 180 dollars, and he spent it all in the course of three days. He seems to spend money as if it means nothing to him. For example, he buys the nuns breakfast, an endless amount of alcohol and pays for a prostitute. He isn’t concerned about the cost of living if he runs away from New York. Holden is not particularly mocking capitalism, but proves that caring too much about money will ruin you.

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  83. In response to Mr.Rodriguez’s question, he is remembering a specific event at one of his old schools, Elkton Hills and is referring to his old roommate Dick Sagle. His roommate calls him “bourgeois” or materialistic but I don't think that was Holden’s intent, he just explained it in an unflattering way that would make most readers assume it is wrong. First you must gras that Holden, despites his efforts to run away from it, is from pretty well off family. So, when he meets other people that are limited for financial reasons he feels it as not as easy to relate. The expensive suitcases his family is able to provide him are representative of his social class and financial capability and those of the same class are able to relate about family life and other social matters. When someone with less things, or in this case, worse suitcases it is harder for Holden to connect with them. I also know that Holden does not mean it in a superior way because of his attitude towards people with power and the term he uses “blue as hell”. When he tends to mock things he only mocks people or places with lots of power and money. The suitcase incident is on the opposite side of the spectrum and so I have concluded that it is not because he is materialistic. He uses the the term “blue as hell” because I suspect he feels bad and does not wish to make anyone with less things than him feel bad as well. Holden does not want to show off what he has, and is instead humble about what he has and does not want to make others feel lesser than they are. Lastly, I think there is no tie between the suitcases and the Broadway shows. I believe the Broadway shows just show how Holden’s father is a reckless spender that can afford to waste money on silly pursuits then only focus it on the necessities.

    -Caitlin Jensen

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  84. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  85. Reading over the passage I find that Holden's thoughts on the inexpensive suitcases can mean towards society itself and how quickly someone is to judge someone else based on materialistic goods. Holden makes it clear that he hates those who have cheap suitcases."I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them ...” (pg. 141) It does sound quite terrible to simply judge somebody for having something that looks cheap. Still, even if it sounds quite awful to most us, we end up doing the same. I can't help to think that Holden's whole argument about the suitcases connects to society and social classes. When Holden recalls of the boy he roomed with in Elkton Hills, Dick Slagle, he would hide his own suitcases under his bed so one would take a look at them. I mean in Pency, a school filled with rich kids, he clearly was embarrassed that anyone would see his inexpensive suitcases. Holden does feel bad for him and offers to lend him his suitcases since his are really expensive but Slagle kept denying his offer. He would make many snotty remarks about his suitcases being too bourgeois. It is quite funny because Holden later finds out that the reason because Slagle wanted him to put his own expensive suitcases on display on the rack was so others would think they were his. Now what does this have to do with social class? The suitcases demonstrate how people easily judge others based on what they have. Salinger decides to take the idea of the suitcases to mock people who judge others based on material items. Now going back to Holden, he easily judges the nuns for their cheap suitcases assuming quickly that they are from a lower class. In the end, Holden ends having a nice conversation with the nuns and enjoying their company although he did judge them first for what they had.

    When Holden talks about how money can make “you blue as hell”, I keep thinking of my own family. It is mentally and emotionally frustrating to not have enough to pay for simple needs. When my family is on a budget, we all have to take part and save enough to pay for food, rent, clothes; clearly everyday necessities. I know that Holden does not have that problem since his parents have enough ‘dough’ and he also ends up wasting a lot of his own money on drinks at clubs. Still, he is correct that money can you feel sort of depressed when they’re isn’t enough, especially for those from a lower class.


    -Paulina Martinez

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  86. Throughout the book there exist a lot of mockery made by Holden, some of these examples include his elders, women, school, and many more subjects. In the pages 108-109 I believe that the mentioning of the suitcase represents the different social classes. I made this assumption because when people have an expensive suitcase it can signify that the person comes from a high class, while someone with a not expensive suitcase like the nuns in the book which can signify as someone of the lower class. When Holden goes to his room and his roommates call him a “bourgeois” which means someone in the middle class, it can radiate as something offensive during this specific time frame in the book. Based on actions, it can be deduced that Holden does not like the high class due to his interactions at school but rather found a way to connect with the nuns. It can be seen that Holden cant stop critizicing people like mocking the rich and the poor throughout the book. As time passes it can be seen that Holden runs into various money issues and goes from a pretty high class down the social class status. Despite this, seeing his sister makes him really happy and proves that money is not the only factor that causes happiness in life.
    -Diego Arriola

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  87. Holden Caulfield grew up a wealthy child therefore, he is influenced to be a judgemental person. He tends to mock almost everything and everyone around him although he doesn't like it being this way. Society has influenced him to judge by appearance and by the rank of their class. The price of the suitcases represented each individual's social class whether they are wealthy or poor. Holden is more fond of people that have expensive suitcases meaning the wealthy people. The idea of quickly judging others by appearance and wealth reflects on society nowadays because others judge without knowing the person. Society in the 1950's to the present still influence the younger generations to judge a book by its cover.
    -Alessandra Gatchalian

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  88. Holden’s mockery is seen throughout the whole novel. So when we see the mockery of social classes. Although he does come from upper class he does not discriminate when it comes to mocking, since he mocks those at Pencey Prep who come from the same economic level as him. He mocks how Sally’s mother would get bored of asking for donations and simply go shopping, or how he mocks those phonies who are so interested in movies. I t shows that Holden’s mockery was blatant and directed at everyone. Even in the bar the women he asked to dance could tell he wasn’t interested in them as he was in the other girl. Simply it’s just that Holden judges everyone he comes across.

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  89. When Holden is talking about suitcases, I believe he is mocking those who do not have as much money as he does or he may be mocking people that look down on others that do not have as much money as they do. When Caulfield says that two people can't have a relationship if one has expensive suitcases and the other has cheap ones, I believe it is because he thinks they won't be able to connect due to the differences in their money. Maybe he is suggesting that people in different social classes won't be able to have a relationship because of their money. However, when he is talking to the nuns with inexpensive suitcases, he ended up liking them and had a nice conversation with them. While having this conversation, he thought about how a Catholic person could ruin a conversation just by asking another person if they are Catholic. It could be possible that he was thinking about how differences in wealth between people could also ruin a conversation like the Catholic example. In sum, it is clear that he is not mocking those who have less money than him, but is mocking those who judge people by their wealth and social class.

    -Janessa Pujeda

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  90. It is clear that the suitcases are a representation of social class to Holden. He tells is that if someone has a cheap suitcase like his friend Dick, you can assume that they are slightly less fortunate. But when Holden shares with us that someone with an expensive bag can not get a long with someone who has inexpensive ones makes me think he is no longer referring to traveling baggage. I feel that in that statement he is suggesting that two friends must have the same amount of emotional baggage in order to understand each other. Perhaps finding that person was another one of Holden's quests throughout the novel as well. On the other hand, he can simply be saying a person of higher social status cannot have a good relationship wit someone who is of a lower class. By Holden judging people based on the quality of their suitcases, he is being somewhat hypocritical. This is typically something that people of higher class do and in Holden's eyes they are all phonies. Therefore, is Holden a phony too?

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  91. Just like my peers have mentioned, I also believe that the suitcases that Holdem is referring to represent the type of social class that you belong to. Instead of basing off of what the person does, he uses the suitcases to justify how high these people are in the ranks of society. He also mentions that one person with an expensive suitcase would not be able to carry a relationship with a person with a cheap suitcase since they really would not stand one another. Holdem is mainly mocking society as a whole for making him to believe this way.

    -Jorge Tejeda

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  92. The suitcases for Holden are a way so distinguish a persons social status. For example like his roommate Dick Slagle who has cheaper looking suitcases then him, he looked down on him and even pitied when they both had their suitcases out at the same time. Holden coming from the wealthy family is accustom to having more luxurious items and has grown to judge other people. Even when he saw the nuns with the cheap suitcases he was judging the Catholic faith. This is similar how normal teenagers act in today's society, because teens are always judging each other to see who is more popular, smarter or, wealthier.

    -Kyle Elecanal

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  93. I agree with Kyle in that Holden uses suitcases and other features to establish a social hierarchy and I find Holden's comments about the suitcases are rather hypocritical. Only a "phony" would conclude that sort of thing from one's outside appearance. He also finds Dick Slagle to be phony when Dick re-displayed Holden's fancier, more expensive suitcases to make it appear like they were his own. Holden also uses the word "bourgeoisie" with a negative connotation when describing another boarder, while Holden was the one with the extravagant suitcase that dictates his income.

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  94. 8) In chapter 15, Holden point out the fact that he, along with society judge others by the type of suitcases they carry. Of course, the suitcases symbolize an individual’s materialistic value/worth. Holden says "...it's really hard to be roommates with people if your suitcases are much better than theirs - if yours are really good ones and theirs aren't. You think if they're intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do. They really do". By saying this, Holden points out that human relationship cannot be established by people of different economic strata. Holden believes that it is impossible to build a relationship with someone with a lower social status because he thinks the ones in the lower class will always try to attain what the person in the high class has, those attempts, will strain the relationship to the point of collapse. This quote further demonstrates Holden's prejudices that have been imprinted in him. Owning a nice suitcase equates to belonging in a high social class. Holden recalls a time that illustrates his prejudice. Dick Slagle an old roommate of Holden at Elkton Hills used to hide his cheap suitcases and put Holden's expensive, or as Dick would say, “bourgeois” suitcases on display, to create the illusion that he was the owner of the good suitcases. Holden acknowledges his dislike towards the way he defines people, solely based from their suitcases, however he himself is guilty of the same prejudices when he sees the two nuns on the train. Holden is disgusted by the nuns "very inexpensive-looking suitcases” and says “It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them". It’s ironic that Holden believes that a relationship cannot be established between the poor and the rich due to their differences, yet he seems to be building one with the nun as he converses with them. Finally, Holden compares the way Catholics are always trying to find out if other people are Catholic, to the way people compare the quality of two suitcases. Similar to Catholics, who build relationships based on a shared belief or a sacred bond, the affluent social class were no different, because they too build their relationships base on a person’s social class status, common opportunities, and similar upbringing. Both building relationships from common aspects of life.

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