Dear AP students:
First, I have posted two
interesting web sites on the right hand side of this blog site--under Holden's
Caulfield's Manhattan. Take a look and see the descriptions of the
setting for Catcher in the Rye. Have any of you been to Manhattan?
There's no place like it!! And though there are many things there
to see, each time I go there I can't help but think of this book. New
York has been memorialized in many books and movies--the opening scene of Woody
Allen's move Manhattan (see YouTube at right margin) for example, or the move
The Godfather--but JD Salinger does as good a job as anybody. As you read
this book, ask yourself why the setting of Manhattan is crucial. How does
this unique setting impact what goes on in the story? How would the novel
be different if the setting was a place like San Diego? Or
a small town in the Midwest?
Second, related to the last posting, we will
always analyze a main character by looking at five things: What a character
think..what a character does...what a character looks like...what a character
says..and how other characters relate to the main character. Keep this in
mind as we read the book.
Third, I want to draw your attention to that scene on page 19 that takes
place between Holden and his fellow student Ackley. As you recall, they
are both in the dorm while the rest of the school's student body is at the
football game. Holden spends a lot of this time making fun of Ackley and
paints him as a real nerd, but there is something very ironic about this.
Can anybody comment on this, or anything else about this scene? What does
Caulfield's making fun of Ackley say about him? What does he say about
Ackley? What does this scene have in common with the previous scene
between Caulfield and his history teacher Spenser? Take the time and
re-read this scene to fully analyze it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAfter thoroughly viewing and analyzing the images of mid-twentieth century Manhattan, I feel like the city that Holden resides in was almost overwhelmingly large and spanning. The towering high-rises evoke a sense of insignificance within me, as if I were but a tiny speck of dust being blown in the wind. Perhaps in Holden’s eyes, the gargantuan buildings only serve to prove that the world is cruel and uncaring. If the novel were to take place in a small Midwestern town, then there would not have been imposing skyscrapers that could convey this feeling of unimportance. Furthermore, having the novel take place in Manhattan allows for a cold, freezing winter season. It is important that the events of the Catcher in the Rye take place during winter: the season is figuratively and literally the coldest, harshest season. If the novel were to take place in the city of San Diego, then the winter wouldn’t be nearly as noticeable, and author J.D. Salinger would not have been able to show the harshness of the season. Basically, the setting of winter Manhattan is a great place to show Holden's pessimistic view of the world.
ReplyDeleteBased on the discussion of Holden Caulfield, our protagonist, on the post #2 thread, it can be concluded that Holden frequently judges others prematurely and in a negative context. When Holden first introduces and describes Ackley, he points out that, “he [Ackley] hated everybody’s guts, damn near” (pg. 23). This sentence in particular piqued my interest as I reread chapter three. Holden notes that Ackley basically hates everyone, yet, as I’ve noticed an abundance of times throughout the novel, Holden describes others in such a negative way that he can be considered a hateful person. Holden does not truly realize that he cynically describes most of the people he encounters, while we, the audience, do; this is a form of dramatic irony. After a second reading of chapter three, what else can you guys point about this scene?
-Brenden Gregorio
I feel as if the setting of Manhattan brings it's very own life. Many of us recognize that New York is the center of a diverse culture full of character and attitude that could only be from New York. Let us not forget how influential Manhattan is. From the art pieces to the landscape, all aspects are evident in “The Catcher in the Rye.” Say the book were to be set in the Mid West, one could say the novel would gain the culture that thrives in this region, however, compared to New York the Midwest may seem incompetent in regards to how fast paced and exciting the original setting may be. The novel would most definitely lose its diversity and the uniqueness of the “melting pot” of the United States. The language would be identical to the language, slang utilized in the Midwest and lose the city life effect that is present in the novel. In addition, Holden Caulfield’s retelling of previous moments in his life may not effectively influence readers' beliefs as the setting in Manhattan has and will continue to do. In essence, if “The Catcher in the Rye” were based in a different setting who knows if the central argument would be completely understood by readers as compared to the original setting in Manhattan. In regards to Mr. Rodriguez's question revolving around the scene between Ackley and Caulfield on page 19; I would have to conclude Holden continues to take out his anger regarding his own perfections on his roommate. Holden displays an inability to control his own actions as he argues with Ackley. Shockingly, the narrator does not respect the age barrier between him and his roommate. After rereading the scene on page 19, numerous times I feel as if Caulfield is quick to be in charge of a conversation... essentially the one to call it quits whenever he may feel it necessary. I know there is more to the conversation between Ackley and Caulfield, what do you guys think?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brenden in that Manhattan is the perfect setting for this novel. The people going in and out of this borough almost seem to get lost in how overwhelming the city is: big buildings, the Big Apple, and the "city that never sleeps". This setting enhances the novel's reoccurring theme of alienation; it clearly portrays Holden as a small kid in a big city, on his own.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mr. Rodriguez's question, Holden's making fun of Ackley shows that he's just as hateful as he makes Ackley out to be. It's not that big of a surprise that Holden is portraying Ackley in a negative way, but as Brenden pointed out, it's ironic that he would make fun of him for something he does himself. Something else I noticed about this scene was that despite Holden claiming that Ackley hates everyone and that both he and Ackley are not friends, they act like they are. Ackley is comfortable enough to enter into Holden's room and even ask him for scissors (page 30), and laughs when Holden gets hit in the head with a racket (page 31). I feel as if even though Holden claims they're not friends, they actually are, but Holden doesn't realize it. Since this novel is written in Holden's point of view, we can never truly know if Ackley views Holden as a friend. Did anyone else notice anything about this scene? What do you think this says about Holden's point of view on his relationships with other people?
-Anna Leon
Anna makes a great point in pointing out that Cathcer in the Rye is written through the eyes of Holden and the reader may never realize if Holden and Ackley are friends. What is irinic between Holden's description of Ackley is that Holden is reflecting the negativity upon himself.
ReplyDeleteConsidering Cathcer in the Rye was written in the 1950's and also taking into consideration that Holden is the earliest form of cynicism, Holden is unable to relate to the people he meets. Holden is constantly telling the reader he is lonely and depressed. I believe the reason Manhattan/ New York is significant in the Catcher in the Rye is because the city provides a constant flow of people, and in Holden's view, the only way to overcome his loneliness and depression is to to interact with the constant flow of people. There may be other reasons why Manhattan is significant, did anyone find another reason possibly?
-Jose (Tony) Delgado
I also saw Manhattan as a place with masses of people to combat the loneliness Holden is feeling. In addition, I saw it as a place that provided depth for the story as it allowed Holden to engage in adult-like activity i.e. bars, sex, etc. This activity helps represent the outcast character that Holden embodies, showing the change from teens in the 1950's and the similarities to teens now.
DeleteHolden has a strong hatred for "phonies". These are the people that mask negative feelings by embodying a certain physical persona. I believe that the reason Holden addresses Ackley as a "...pimple faced, lousy toothed, crazy sonuvabitch with crumby fingernails..." (page 22) is to draw a parallel to the physical outward appearance these "phonies" always display. He uses the image they give for themselves, and bites them in the butt with it to explain why he hates these type of people as they shield inner feeling and worth for physical characteristics.
-Sarah Schumacher
I believe that the setting for the novel is extremely crucial. The setting of Manhattan is a place with many different types of people, and many “phonies” as Holden might say. It’s the city that never sleeps and on the first night that Holden arrives, he actually barely sleeps. He goes from bar to bar, hotel to hotel, and park to park. He is constantly switching locations when he is there, trying to escape the people and attitudes he dislikes. As Sarah stated before it gives Holden a perfect setting to engage in adult activities, through these activities one can see Holden trying to seem adult like but in some he is just not ready and in reality he is still a child. Manhattan is a big place with many different times of people, and I think it impacts the setting in a way that it allows for Holden to engage in adult activities as well as interact with many different types of people and many phonies. I think if the setting was somewhere else there wouldn’t be that same sense of Holden engaging in these activities or meeting all these people and all these phonies.
Delete-Camila Lautz
The setting for the book being New York is a major point to the overall story and the events that take place. Because of this i agree with Camila's statement, but i see the irony in it too. The character Holden often accuses people of being "phonies" or not actually what they appear to be. New York City is always depicted as a city of wonder and opportunity that leaves people in awe of its sight. Although this idea is merely that, an idea. This idea is used to attract people both abroad and in the United States. also New York City is also home to Broadway, the infamous plays and theaters. all of which have actors playing roles and pretending to be someone that they are not. Although the novel does not really criticize the city of New York's reputation, it still offers a great setting for our cynical character to see all kinds of people and get his idea of them.
DeleteUp until reading the comment about comparing the setting to perhaps a friendlier scene like San Diego, I had only thought about Manhattan as an aesthetic, yet unimportant aspect of the book. Referring back to Brenden, the harsh weather not only reflects Holden's, maybe not pessimistic, but overimposed attitude towards life. Because humans are so powerless towards something like the winter of Manhattan, the setting and Holden's ways of accepting situations are very similar. At one point in chapter 3, Ackley begins to cut his toe nails over the floor, leading Holden to complain about this to ackley and to continuosly ask him to stop, eventually giving up with the thought that "He kept right on cutting them over the floor, though. What lousy manners. I mean it" (31). As much as he disliked this however, Holden accepted it and let Ackley be, the weather of Manhattan and the immense buildings emphasis Holden's powerless moments.
ReplyDeleteHolden seems to overemphasis the details of his likes and dislikes in people, he seems to be trying to make a comment in which everyone can relate to however it ends up being a generality about the speficic subject whom he is talking about. One of the most ironic things about his specific critique of Ackley is that he himself seemed to be in the exact same situation. he is painting Ackley as a nerdy kid with little to no friends however he does not seem to connect that they were both sitting in the room alone together while the rest of the student body was at the football game of the year. While periodically throughout the book Holden describes himself bluntly such as in the beggining of the chapter which reads "I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw. It's awful"(22), other times he describes himself through the knit pick qualities he describes in others.
-Rodrigo Blanco
Similar to Rodrigo, I also failed to notice the significance of the setting in the book. However, after analyzing the photos, I can agree with Brenden's conclusion that the skyscrapers and large crowd added to the theme of the book, which we established earlier as alienation. But I also developed my own perspective as I viewed the photographs continuously. I saw that there were so many people and so many activities taking place at once, and I felt that it resembles the mental pattern that Holden carries out throughout the book. He is never consistent with his thoughts. For example, as Tony mentioned above, the reader will never know whether Ackley and Holden were friends or not. This is due to the fact that our protagonist presents to us his negative view of Ackley, while he sits in a dorm next to him while all the other students are at a football game. This scenario reflects Holden's ironical and inconsistent thought pattern throughout the book.
ReplyDeleteNew York is a very unique when compared to places such as San Diego, Loma Linda, or Sacramento. Although its distinctiveness is not necessarily seen as negative, it is significant different. I found that we can possibly relate this idea to Holden as a cynical teenager in the early 1950s. However, students have hinted above and on other posts that Holden's distinctiveness may be a negative aspect. Nevertheless, he is very different from other teenagers of his time, and he seems to always be all over the place with his opinions and actions towards people or things. He claims in the book that he hated Pencey, but earlier he was trying to find ways to say goodbye. He speaks negatively of Ackley and makes him sound rather disgusting in appearance, but yet finds himself alone with him in the dorm while others participate in school activities. I do not believe that too many other cities could have reflected on Holden's mentality as Manhattan did, andI find it very interesting how the smallest aspect of the book ties into the bigger theme.
Going back to the evidence Anna presented when she argued that Holden and Ackley seem to be comfortable around one another, it is completely clear that they are close in some ways. But it did confuse me as a reader when Holden got up from his chair to get Ackley the scissors from his suitcase when he claims that Ackley is annoying and disturbing (pg. 27). I believe that Anna is correct when she says that they actually may be friends. Overall, Holden does not demonstrate his thoughts in one pattern, he seems to always be all over the place.
-Negin Mohtashemian
I have always been enchanted by big cities, particularly New York. Having the story take place in any other setting would not have the same effect and I think I understand why Salinger would choose this place at this time. I feel like New York draws a lot of people in because it’s a crowded place full of people with ambition and character; it has a rich history. People are always searching for themselves in New York. There’s an effect there that cannot be mirrored by sunny San Diego or the quiet Midwest. Holden is a character of great complexity. It makes sense to put the setting in a place as complex as Holden the main protagonist. New York is romanticized time and time again by movies and television and reminds us of endless possibility.
ReplyDeleteThey say that we hate the people who reminds most of ourselves. And that’s what I think Holden sees in Mr. Spencer and Ackley. Perhaps he sees bits of himself in Mr. Spencer and Ackley in their own individual alienation from Mr. Spencer’s odd habits or Ackley’s unpopularity and annoyance. Maybe Holden feels insecure about himself and takes it out on others to obscure it. Holden talks about how Ackley hated everyone’s guts and seems annoyed by it but ironically Holden is the same way. Holden also talks about how the words Mr. Spencer uses like “grand” is phony yet Holden lies to people and says he is very good at it.
-Abegail Caraulia
After looking through the photographs and others' posts about the significance of Manhattan being the setting, it seems clear that there is a sort of symbolism being communicated from the city. I very much like the analysis made by Brenden in how he links the setting to alienation and how the grandness of it all stimulates a sense of insignificance. I'd like to add on to this by discussing how New York is a place of opportunity yet at the same time, a place of futile attempts to escape. Holden has a tendency of running away from his dislikes in how he moves from his room to Ackley's, from Ackley's to straight up leaving Pencey and going to New York, and so on. The setting of New York opens a lot of possibilities for Holden, but keeps him in a repetitive cycle of moving around from place to place and ultimately not feeling comfortable anywhere he goes. It's as if Holden believes that he can get away from his own dislikes by simply switching his locations, and that is evidently not the case.
ReplyDeleteNow Holden views Ackley as a stereotypical dork. He basically calls Ackley overly annoying and unsocial in his actions and simply who he is. This is ironic in how Holden himself can actually be seen as the same type of person in how he points out that Ackley is the only person who wouldn't go to the game when everybody else was, but is literally the only other person who stayed behind similarly to Ackley. From the way he negatively describes Ackley, we can see that these are traits that he dislikes in a person. However, it's ironic in how these very traits that Holden would tend to dislike in a person are the very traits he himself may have. For example, Holden seems to consider many people "phonies" and finds it rather annoying. But at the same time, Holden himself can be considered a phony for how his actions sometimes does not match his thoughts and how he acknowledges that he himself is very good at lying. While he may feel separated in this place, he may actually be quite similar to those around him, the real problem may possibly be that he does not like his own character and tends to see the things he dislikes about himself on other people and ends up running from this realization.
-Andrew Son
In response to Mr. Rodriguez, Manhattan played a significant role as the setting of The Catcher in the Rye because this location holds many opportunities for Holden Caulfield to display rebellion against teenage conformity, which was previously discussed in Post #1. The city is bustling with culture, and much of it involves drinking, smoking and sex. Like the scandalous Edmont Hotel and Ernie’s unlawful nightclub, Holden was able to partake in a lot of these adult pastimes that effectively prove how nonconforming his decisions are.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, this city occupies a great number of places that keep the story alive; majority of the story follows Holden around Manhattan, and without places like the Rockefeller Center Skating Rink where Holden and Sally went on a date, or Penn Station where Holden mistakenly leaves the fencing team’s foils, the story would lack overall excitement and depth. If the story were to have taken place in a small town in the Midwest, much less places would be available for Holden to venture out to. In fact, a smaller area would actually limit Holden’s attempt to isolate himself from his former school.
With that being said, New York emphasizes the concept of alienation. As previously mentioned in Post #2, Holden alienated himself from Pencey and used Manhattan’s extensive vicinity to distance himself as far away from his peers and his former life at his private school as possible. Because New York is one of the busiest cities in the United States, Salinger purposely chose this setting to prove that even though Holden was in a busily compacted area, he still found himself alienated by the rest of society. His customs and personality merely repelled others, which definitely says something about his character.
In response to Mr. Rodriguez, Manhattan played a significant role as the setting of The Catcher in the Rye because this location holds many opportunities for Holden Caulfield to display rebellion against teenage conformity, which was previously discussed in Post #1. The city is bustling with culture, and much of it involves drinking, smoking and sex. Like the scandalous Edmont Hotel and Ernie’s unlawful nightclub, Holden was able to partake in a lot of these adult pastimes that effectively prove how nonconforming his decisions are.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, this city occupies a great number of places that keep the story alive; majority of the story follows Holden around Manhattan, and without places like the Rockefeller Center Skating Rink where Holden and Sally went on a date, or Penn Station where Holden mistakenly leaves the fencing team’s foils, the story would lack overall excitement and depth. If the story were to have taken place in a small town in the Midwest, much less places would be available for Holden to venture out to. In fact, a smaller area would actually limit Holden’s attempt to isolate himself from his former school.
With that being said, New York emphasizes the concept of alienation. As previously mentioned in Post #2, Holden alienated himself from Pencey and used Manhattan’s extensive vicinity to distance himself as far away from his peers and his former life at his private school as possible. Because New York is one of the busiest cities in the United States, Salinger purposely chose this setting to prove that even though Holden was in a busily compacted area, he still found himself alienated by the rest of society. His customs and personality merely repelled others, which definitely says something about his character.
After analyzing the posts made by my peers and the photos of Manhattan, I had also failed to interpret the significance of the setting when first reading the book. I believe that the author J.D. Salinger used Manhattan as the setting of the book because it allowed Holden to experience alienation as a whole. As Manhattan has a diverse culture as stated by Joshua, this encourages Holden to recognize what he loves or hates. Manhattan also provides very different areas such as Broadway and the variety of Museums the city holds. The large population of the city will also influence Holden to connect with people in order to overcome the feeling of alienation he has. Since Manhattan has such a large population, it would be hard for Holden to persistently avoid other people throughout the course of the whole novel. Overall, New York City is a difficult place for Holden to be as his positivity and negativity combine to give him mixed feelings about the place and the people that live there.
ReplyDeleteAs for the scene where Holden makes fun of Ackley, there is a lot of irony about Holden. The irony in this scene is that Holden is just like Ackley, but Holden does not want to admit it. Since the rest of the school was at the football game and it was only them two in the dorm, I consider both characters to be lonely and not outgoing. I feel that because Holden and Ackley are very similar in character, Holden is speaking negative about Ackley to make himself feel better. I also think that Ackley represents all of the traits that Holden hates about himself, but does not realize he also does. Altogether, Ackley serves as a reminder to Holden that he also cannot fit into society, which the theme alienation revolves around.
-Brian Arlantico
Brian's comment is the one I agree with the most because I also didn't really see any importance in the setting of the book. I believe the author used Manhattan as the setting because of its significance as one of the most popular cities in the world holding many landmarks. I agree with Brian's statement in which he says Holden is able to determine what he loves and hates due to the diverse culture presented in Manhattan. I see no difference if it were to be told in a different setting, other than the slang used in the different areas, as well as the culture.
DeleteIn the chapter where Holden makes fun of Ackley, Holden is again constantly insulting him even thought they could both share a likely resemblance in which both are shy, due to not going to the football game where everyone else is at. Holden basically bullies Ackley in this chapter, even though that they are similar in character.
-Ryan Dasmarinas
I disagree with the statement that Manhattan has no importance to the book. The setting is significant because Manhattan is such a massive place for Holden Caulfield who is depicted as very lonely. Holden finds himself excited when he hears about Jane Gallagher because it's someone whom he got close to when he was younger. All of a sudden Holden feels as if he won't be so lonely. Had this story been set in a small town where everyone knows each other, Holden wouldn't feel so lonely. He finds himself going to others for company when he feels lonely. He goes to Ackley after the fight just because he is seeking company and when Holden gets really desperate, he calls on a girl he has never met to "meet up for a cocktail". At a point he even considers joining a monastery.
DeleteCaulfield finds himself quick to judge others as well.The scene in which Ackley is being described is ironic because he is describing parts of him that are in Holden himself. One way is that he describes Ackley with a "terrible personality", but Holden himself comes off as a little anti-social. This is similar to the conversation with Mr.Spencer when he becomes irritated with the criticism he is receiving but criticizes Mr. Spencer in his thoughts as well. He states negative parts to others but those negative aspects are a part of himself was well.
Although I enjoyed Manhattan as a unique setting for this novel, I think similar feelings of isolation could arise in someone in a small, mid-Western town. Perhaps especially in this time, small towns tend to be close-knit, conservative communities - anyone who falls outside of what society deems normal is ostracized. Holden's rebellious, cynical attitude would have caused him to be isolated by his peers in a small town. Additionally, the idea of "small-town hospitality," I think, would have instilled in Holden a hatred for phonies. A person could seem kind and caring, only to turn their backs on someone for refusing to adhere to societal norms.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, I think Manhattan was the perfect setting for this novel. Aside from what has already been said about the scenery of the city making him feel insignificant, the general attitude of people in Manhattan amplifies this. Holden leaves Pency Prep to get away from phonies like Stradlater, yet goes to a place where it seems people are only out for themselves. The night-life in Manhattan also adds to his isolation - despite being surrounded by crowds and meeting different kinds of people, he is unable to connect with anyone.
I also believe that Holden and Ackley are far more similar than Holden thinks. To begin, Holden criticizes Ackley for, "[hating] everybody's guts, damn near" (26). I found this ironic because the same can be said for Holden; he classifies most, if not all, adults as phonies. Additionally, both are not at the game at Pency, meaning that they both perhaps are lonely and see themselves as outcasts. I also find it ironic that Holden is disgusted at Ackley's dental hygiene when his own oral condition will be end up being far worse due to his smoking habits. Finally, both refuse to do something when others ask them, although for different reasons. Ackley, I think, does this out of spite while Holden does this just to mess around. (Pages 39-40, when Holden was holding Stradlater in a wrestling position while he was shaving.) What I think this says about Holden is that perhaps he spends more time calling people phonies than actually getting to know them, and cannot see past the first layer of someone's personality. Additionally, Ackley's seemingly genuine concern for Holden after Stradlater causes his face to become bloody leads me to believe that Ackley views Holden as a friend.
I forgot to add my name, sorry! This response was by Amy Lopez.
DeleteI agree with you in that had this novel taken place in a small town Holden would feel similar feelings of isolation, but I feel that since Holden is placed in a very large city the feeling of alienation is intensified. To be in a large place without a single person to relate to is heartbreaking and can make one feel helpless or even guilty. It could make Holden feel like he brought the alienation upon himself and maybe he did. Being constantly plagued with the sense of loneliness when surrounded by millions of people could cause Holden to spiral further. His attempts to rid himself of this loneliness could even be what lands him in the mental institution..
Delete-Andrea Ramirez
After analyzing the photos of Manhattan, reading the above responses by my peers, and using background knowledge on New York and other big cities, I came to the conclusion that the setting of the novel is significant, in that it provides Holden a place where he is free to do whatever he wants. In other words, Manhattan is a grand place, almost majestic... it's a place where people go to puruse their dreams and find themselves. Condidering that it is one of the busiest places in the nation, the setting is important in that, as aformentioned by my peers, the alienation that Holden feels, is emphasized. The "constant flow" of people mentioned above is another way of describing how people in big cities are preoccupied with their own thoughts to care about other people's problems. This brings me to my point... despite the setting having an abundance of people, Holden struggles to connect with them because Manhattan is a busy and grand place. If the novel were to take place in a different setting, such as San Diego, Holden's attitude towards life would have been different. This is because one's surroundings directly contributes to their morals and values. One major difference between San Diego and Manhattan, is that San Diego is a place where people can relax. Its a family friendly place with a strong sense of community. Manhattan on the other hand, is a busy fast-paced, and grand place.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the question about Holden and Ackley, I agree with Anna,that in some ways they may be close. Maybe it is just Holden's observant demeanor, but Caufield is very aware of every move that Ackley makes. For instance, he says, "He started walking in around my room, very slowly and all, they way he always did..." (Salinger 20). In essence, Caufield and Ackley have some type of relationship. It may not be a friendship, but based on Holden's descriptions, they are close in some way. Just as Andrew had stated, Ackley and Holden share some traits. I agree with Andrew that the reason why Holden is so negative with Ackley, is because he sees a little bit of himself in him. For example, both characters have a carefree and apathetic attitude. On page 21, Salinger writes, "He was exactly the kind of guy that wouldnt get out of your light when you asked him to". Just like Holden, Ackley does not care about what others do or say to him. Overall, this demonstated how they both feel "superior" aroud others. Ackley because of his age and grade level, "He was always telling me I was a goddamn kid, because i was sixteen and he was eighteen" (Salinger 21), and Holden because of his youth.
The setting of Manhattan in this book is crucial because it affects Holden in great manner. Yes, there are dangers of the big city, but it also has its beauties as well. In the story, Holden seems to be both repelled and attracted to Manhattan at the same time. Holden is able to be free and independent in the city. It is the place where Holden has a religious quest as well as a nervous breakdown. If the story was set anywhere else, it would totally change the plot and even the way Holden would think and act. Our surroundings affect how we think and what we do.
ReplyDeleteOn page 19, when Holden and Ackley are in the dorm together, Holden makes fun of and perceives him as a total outcast. This shows that Holden is quick to judge and only sees peoples' flaws. This is ironic because Holden is almost exactly like Ackley, but he is just afraid to admit it. He claims to feel bad for Ackley, so does this mean he also feels bad for himself? Holden proclaims that, "Ackley was a slob in his personal habits," but Stradlater probably thinks the same thing of Holden for his constant horsing around and talking about Jane. What this scene has in common with the previous scene between Caulfield and his history teacher Spenser is the fact that Caulfield sees people as phonies and is quick to judge people, even though they may share some of the same qualities as him.
-Justin Bleisch
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI believe the setting of Manhattan emphasizes the opportunities that Holden can take advantage of, but it also represents the mass amount of people that are also subjected to the same opportunities as him. That is to say Holden can acquire so much if he puts his mind to it, but if he fails to realize his position, then others will step up. This can be seen in the novel when Holden gets kicked out of Pencey prep, and when he fails almost all of his classes except English. Because he is not taking advantage of the opportunities that lie ahead, he is falling behind in school that can be transferred and seen in a bigger picture; Manhattan. Where it is a big city, with lots of people, and many opportunities, if he does not find his way to them, then the whole world around him will get ahead.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Manhattan I think of busy roads, and cars advancing in traffic. I feel like the people around Holden are getting ahead of the road (His brother as a writer, his family) while he keeps getting stuck in the midst of trouble. I agree with Abegail, that a setting like "sunny San Diego" wouldn't be able to capture the complexity of Holden and his experiences throughout the book. This leaves me wondering..what if Holden lives in a place like San Diego? where there wasn't as much of congestion and progression early on, in comparison to a place like Manhattan.
-Cassandra Hernandez
Throughout my read, I see Holden to be someone who is sidelined. Although being put off seems unsatisfactory, being outside of the playing field, in an actual game for example, allows one to see what is truly happening.
ReplyDeleteIt is also important to recognize the insignificant feeling that comes off from Manhattan as the setting of the book. The gargantuan buildings, as Brenden phrased it, creating a sense of being towered over. However, because of the overall narration, Holden makes it seem as if he is still above this despite his minuscule place inside of such a big city. I found that he understands, or has established his own understanding of, the ways that people think, even pointing out his school's reasoning for serving steak on Saturday nights so that when students' parents came over on Sunday, they would "ask their darling boy what he had for dinner last night, and he'd say, 'Steak.'"(page 35).
Likewise, when taking into account Holdens condescending attitude towards Ackley, I find that he convinces himself that he is better than him. His judgement fails to consider Ackley's perspective when encountering someone as passive aggressive as himself.
-Allan Dizon
I believe that the setting of Manhattan being used in The Catcher in the Rye impacts what takes place in the story significantly, mainly because it emphasizes the novel's theme of Alienation which is analyzed in Post #2. The New York setting makes Holden build connections with people which he realizes is the only way to overcome his loneliness and internal conflicts. I am in agreement with my peers views that the story would not be the same if it did not take place in the hustle and bustle of the Big Apple. I feel as if the city of New York has a kind of danger and decadence that Holden is attracted to, which smaller cities in the Midwest or our hometown of San Diego fail to possess. That being said, I agree with Sarah that the activities Holden participates in (smoking, drinking, etc.) during his time in New York represents his character as a rebellious teenager in the 1950s that has a nonconforming attitude towards society.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the scene between Holden and Ackley, the thing I found most ironic (as Andrew has mentioned) is that Holden is actually quite similar to Ackley and they both have alike traits. At the end of page 19 when speaking of Ackley, Holden states "He hated everybody's guts, damn near." Yet in the paragraphs leading up to that statement, Holden said things such as "He was a very peculiar guy" and "And not only that, he had a terrible personality. He was also sort of a nasty guy." This lead me to notice that he is talking about how Ackley dislikes everyone, but Holden is shying away from the fact that he has just portrays a similar outlook towards others. Although I do feel that Holden might hate Ackley because he is in fact a reflection of himself, there is an undeniable bond that has arisen between the two, even though he and Ackley may not necessarily view each other as pals. As Abegail has called attention to, I do think that the commonalities the two have with each other are similar to the commonalities that Holden has with Mr. Spencer which is why both scenes can be compared in a similar manner.
-Atheana Lopez
When I was observing and analyzing the images of Manhattan, New York I clearly envisioned the setting from the book and how the main character would feel with the whole atmosphere. In contrast to what my peers said about being a cultural exhibit in the present day, NYC in the book takes place in 1962 and is a much more unfortunate setting. Try to imagine being in a chilly and frosty season while also being in between the tall and dull buildings designed with bricks/cement. The setting portrays the darker core where Holden wanders around. The novel would be completely different if the setting takes place in a area like San Diego. San Diego has more frequent sunny weather compared to the freezing environment in Manhattan. Therefore, sunny weather makes a joyful atmosphere and whereas, winter's imagery is a more monotonous and dreary atmosphere. However, I agree to the point my peers made about how the setting of Manhattan matches how Holden feels in his shoes since Holden would not be used to the feeling of an urbanized and crowded space. That said, Holden's negative behavior about being in a unruly place suits his character.
ReplyDeleteFor addressing the issue between Holden and Ackley, Andrew and Atheana has mentioned that both characters are similar because of how Holden describes himself as a peculiar guy and Ackley being the nasty guy. Furthermore, Holden does not like to open about himself very much in public he tends to secrete his view about making a friendship with others. This view is ironic because it was as if Holden continues to deny himself at his true feelings because as soon as Holden was giving a farewell to Mr. Spencer he was upset yet was still bitter about the meaning of "Good luck." This shows the similarity between Ackley and Holden's relationship since Holden cowardly tries to deny the fact that both are very much alike since they are described as those nasty and terrible guys referring to the book. I still wonder how Holden's relationship with other characters will occur as he continuously denies himself with his whole life.
When I was observing and analyzing the images of Manhattan, New York I clearly envisioned the setting from the book and how the main character would feel with the whole atmosphere. In contrast to what my peers said about being a cultural exhibit in the present day, NYC in the book takes place in 1962 and is a much more unfortunate setting. Try to imagine being in a chilly and frosty season while also being in between the tall and dull buildings designed with bricks/cement. The setting portrays the darker core where Holden wanders around. The novel would be completely different if the setting takes place in a area like San Diego. San Diego has more frequent sunny weather compared to the freezing environment in Manhattan. Therefore, sunny weather makes a joyful atmosphere and whereas, winter's imagery is a more monotonous and dreary atmosphere. However, I agree to the point my peers made about how the setting of Manhattan matches how Holden feels in his shoes since Holden would not be used to the feeling of an urbanized and crowded space. That said, Holden's negative behavior about being in a unruly place suits his character.
ReplyDeleteFor addressing the issue between Holden and Ackley, Andrew and Atheana has mentioned that both characters are similar because of how Holden describes himself as a peculiar guy and Ackley being the nasty guy. Furthermore, Holden does not like to open about himself very much in public he tends to secrete his view about making a friendship with others. This view is ironic because it was as if Holden continues to deny himself at his true feelings because as soon as Holden was giving a farewell to Mr. Spencer he was upset yet was still bitter about the meaning of "Good luck." This shows the similarity between Ackley and Holden's relationship since Holden cowardly tries to deny the fact that both are very much alike since they are described as those nasty and terrible guys referring to the book. I still wonder how Holden's relationship with other characters will occur as he continuously denies himself with his whole life.
While some associate 1960s New York with a somberness reflected in the city's dreary weather and seemingly cold architectural styling, there is also a vibrancy that must be taken into account in regards to the metropolis' night life. Deemed "the city that never sleeps", there is an energy that is easily recognizable in the writing of author J.D. Salinger concerning the metropolitan icon characterized by its bright lights, affluent neighborhoods, and rich culture. Furthermore, the writer's crucial decision to set the story during the holiday season only draws an even more elated picture in the minds of readers as New York is famous for its participation in Christmas festivities to include parades, beautiful decorations, and incredible shopping sprees. This is not to say however, that the purposeful mention of cold, lonely nights spent by the protagonist wandering the empty streets in search of some company was not meant to evoke a sense of empathy for Holden Caulfield. But I feel as though this too is comparison to the main character, for as New York itself changes from a lighthearted wonderland during the day to a bitterly chilling wasteland at night, so too does Holden Caulfield's personality jump from hopeful and happy, to critical and indignant.
ReplyDeleteAs for the petty judgment of Robert Ackley from chapters 3 to 6, it seemed as though the main character chose to at first comment solely on habitual behavior that to most would in fact be regarded as uncouth or annoying. However, as the story went on, the protagonist proceeded to go more in depth with his criticism, attacking his peer's person and uncontrollable traits such as his severe acne. To me, it appeared as though with the increasing deterioration of Caulfield's life at Pencey, came a desire to balance out his own suffering with that of other by his own hand. I found this to be quite relatable because though not all teenagers go out of their way to verbally hurt others, we do sometimes look to the hardship of others to minimize or put into perspective that of our own.
Having New York City as the setting of this novel was indeed crucial for the development not only for Holden but for the book as well. Holden being the small kid in a big city on his own who hates school, that is trouble waiting to happen. The setting provides opportunities to help shape Holden as well. As we already know he tends to isolate himself quite often, and I believe the story would be completely different if he were to live at home or go to a prep school that is much closer to home. Nevertheless I indeed see great value in having the story take place in New York, because it give him the freedom to do whatever he wants.
ReplyDeleteReferring back to page 19 when Holden and Ackley have their confrontation and Holden does what he does best (judge others), I do find it very ironic on why Holden would depict Ackley as a 'Nerd'. I strongly agree with Rodrigo when he mentioned, it is ironic on why Holden is making fun of Ackley when they are in the same situation. After reading that it made me wonder ,why Holden would make fun of someone who is a grade older than him and to me as it seems like they are friends. On page 23 it says "I could feel him standing on the shower ledge, right behind my chair, taking a look if Stradlater was around. He hated Stradlater's guts...He hated everybody's guts"(chapter, 3). For Holden to possess this kind of information, makes me wonder how close these two actually are. Although Holden seems deny liking Ackley and constantly ridiculous him, it is evidnent that they have a bond because they are indeed in the same situation. Holden's ability to value friendships is blocked by him constantly isolating himself and crowded by him thinking he is better than others.
-Dennis O'Brien (DJ)
I did not realize the significance of the setting until I read this post and its comments. I agree that the setting, Manhattan, emphasizes the sense of alienation. Manhattan is so busy, and, ironically, it's easy to feel alone in such a big city. I agree with Daphne, Manhattan is a huge contrast to San Diego--where it's sunny, open, and more family-oriented. Not only that, but the population is dramatically smaller--the city is less confined. The streets are not as busy, everyone is sort of kinder to each other. It's harder to feel alone in a place like SD. So, it makes sense that this book takes place in Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Justin B., Holden and Ackley are almost the same. Holden complains, for example, that Ackley "hated everybody's guts," which is ironic because it seems as if Holden hates everybody's guts as well. But I'd like to comment on what Justin asked, "does that mean he also feels bad for himself?" I believe that it's not that Holden feels sorry for himself, but that he's almost scared of himself. He describes Ackley in such a negative manner because it scares him that he is almost exactly the same. If he felt bad for himself, he'd describe his own negative qualities instead of Ackley's. But Holden doesn't seem to feel bad for himself, he seems to be avoiding himself. Every time he talks about how much someone bugs him, I think he is avoiding his own self-reflection. I think that is very important throughout this book, because it is becoming clear that the more he talks about other people instead of himself, the more he loses himself and loses understanding of what he's becoming. He probably doesn't even realize how negative he is, because he's too busy talking about how negative Ackley is, or how "phony" everyone is.
-Anaiis Yegin
The novel's setting in New York City, specifically Manhattan, is very appropriate considering the protagonist's inconsistent mental pattern. The busy city and unique atmosphere enhances the theme of alienation. Throughout the book, Holden would transition from one memory to another for example he reminisce on the time him and Jane went to the movies then he would describe how D.B brought Holden to Ernie's before he moved to Hollywood (Chapter 12). This is significant because Manhattan has diverse people working in many different directions, not stopping to think and always moving forward. "The city that never sleeps" is very fast pace and consist of vast opportunities its inhabitants can partake. This is evident to when Holden would venture all day and travel wherever he believes would escape his loneliness. There would be a significant contrast if the novel's setting were to take place elsewhere such as San Diego. I agree with my peers that there is a sharp distinction between Manhattan and San Diego. Manhattan is filled with busy people minding their own business and focusing on their destination. This setting can be dark and lonely which describes Holden's thoughts and feelings. Where on the other hand, San Diego is a sunny and joyful city which gives a family friendly atmosphere. It is significantly more relaxing and calming compared to the rapid pace of Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteHolden and Ackley can be seen sharing similar traits, yet Holden does not establish them as friends. Although it is not established, I believe they have a bond of some kind. They are both anti social and outspoken which connects them. I believe Holden thinks negatively and critiques other people to better himself. Ironically him calling others a "phony" establishes himself one because of the way he perceives others and their actions. His belief in knowing much more than others and superior attitude will be a downfall in creating lasting friendships.
I agree with many of my peers that the setting of the novel in New York is strategically set and is intentional. New York City, specifically Manhattan, is famous for its diversity and fast-paced lifestyle. As some of my peers have already noted, the setting of the novel in New York serves as a setting of opportunity for Holden to do and see whatever he wants. We see that throughout the novel that Holden meets different kinds of people including people he has previously known or mere strangers that he meets along his journey. I feel that this diversity that Holden is exposed to throughout the novel allows the character to see new things that he was deprived of in being educated at a private school. I would like to compare the strategic placing of this novel in New York to F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby". Both characters are given the opportunity to experience a life that is different from their own and are able to see that only in New York City.
ReplyDeleteFrom reading through the different opinions of my peers, it is evident that whether or not the novel would carry the same effect if set somewhere else is a debatable topic. In my opinion, I believe that the setting of the novel in New York is iconic in that it serves as a place for self discovery for Holden. In every detail of the novel, especially the setting, I feel that Salinger chose New York as a form of distraction. If the novel were to be set somewhere like San Diego or a smaller town for instance, I do not feel that the novel would carry the same effect in that Holden would not feel as small in his own issues. Holden is characterized as someone who feels superior to others, as evidenced by his brutal judgement of the people around him. While many of my peers argue that a setting that is smaller would allow Holden to experience the same effect of isolationism, I disagree. Holden's decision to go to New York was his response to feeling isolated.
The scene where Holden characterizes Ackley as a real nerd is ironic in that Holden is an outcast himself. Holden continuously judges the people around him throughout the novel to in efforts to make himself feel better or superior to others. In comparison to Holden's earlier conversation with Old Spencer he grows easily irritable by the little things that both characters do when simply having a conversation with him.
-Allison Baciles
I agree with my peers that the setting of Manhattan is crucial to the telling of The Catcher in the Rye; however, I feel that there is another element of this fact that is important to the development of Holden's character beyond the isolation he feels in this big city.
ReplyDeleteDue to the novel being set in Manhattan, Holden is forced to encounter a myriad of characters that contribute to his development, and in turn reveal to Holden that his feelings of isolation are seemingly boundless; even after leaving Pencey, he struggles to find a place where he belongs.
I feel that the setting of Manhattan is also important to the understanding of Holden's character because it reveals certain elements of his upbringing, and what has led him to his predicament of somewhat aimlessly traversing the city for three days. Holden introduces the novel by claiming that he "[doesn't] feel like going into" what his childhood was like, and instead chooses to relate, as he claims, simply "this madman stuff that happened to me around last Christmas". However, Holden's rambling nature leads him to inadvertently reveal things from his childhood: writing Stradlater's essay leads him to divulge that his brother dies of leukemia; his encounter with a friend of Phoebe's at the park causes him to remember how much he enjoyed visiting the Museum of Natural History as a kid. We come to realize that Holden comes from this glamorous world that is his parents' Manhattan. Holden grew up going to famous museums practically every Saturday; spending summer vacations in Maine, golfing and playing tennis at the country club; attending various prestigious New England preparatory schools by the time he was sixteen years old. This is the world that Holden is running from- this world of phonies and crummy bastards. He leaves Pencey for Manhattan, hoping that the diversity of the city would allow him some reprieve from the arrogance that seemed to have pervaded his school. However, as my peers have noted, Holden fails to connect with anybody he meets in Manhattan, just as he struggled to do so at Pencey.
Riley Cruse
After thinking about it a lot, I understood why the J.D Salinger chose this setting in particular. Manhattan during the winters are harsh and painfully cold. In a way it mirrors Holden's personality. In chapter 3 when Holden is talking to Ackley, he asserts the idea that Ackley hates everyone which serves as a clear irony. By reading the whole book, you can see in almost every situation, Holden imposing negative and hateful views upon random people. To add on to the idea of the setting, Manhattan is an extremely large and populated place, which is ironic considering how lonely Holden feels constantly. Its the same idea of feeling alone even when in the company of others. A seemingly "cold" feeling, as the setting assumes.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI can agree that Manhattan is the perfect setting for this story. It’s as though Holden’s character is paralleled by the setting. For example, the freezing winter reflects Holden’s cold and hard personality. I also find that the city provides Holden with a multitude of ways to express his rejection of the traditional teenage conformity of his time, including wandering the empty streets late at night, visiting bars and clubs, and other age-restricted activities. Not only that, Manhattan holds a variety of new and different locations that, as Julia Vazquez Alo described, “keep the story alive”. I agree that the story would lose its excitement had it taken place anywhere else, especially in a small town in the Midwest, or even here in San Diego. Additionally, Manhattan’s daunting size emphasizes the feeling of loneliness; the idea of a rebellious, young teen taking on the big city alone is persistent throughout the book. It adds to the major theme of alienation in The Catcher in the Rye. Holden’s continual search for company is met by the constant flow of new and unique people residing in the culturally rich city. However, he still has yet to come out of his feelings of isolation. His encounters with these people do little to draw him out of his cynical point of view on the world around him.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Mr. Rodriguez’s last question, I did not find anything ironic about this scene after reading it the first time. However, after carefully re-reading the passage, I was able to identify the irony. Holden criticizes Ackley for not going to the football game, calling him “a very peculiar guy” (Salinger page 26), yet Holden himself was not at the game either. He then goes on to say that Ackley “had a terrible personality”, all the while showing his own “terrible personality”. Holden’s previous conversation with Mr. Spencer had similar characteristics. Throughout both conversations, Holden’s dialogue and internal thoughts contradict one another. It seems as though he restricts his words in order to be polite, but his true feelings are revealed in his inner thoughts.
-Noah Pasimio
When first reading the book, I never realized the setting was such a reflection of Caulfield until I read the comments of my peers. To add onto what everybody else had said previously about Manhattan being significant on the story's theme being alienation, I would also agree on the city playing a big factor on Caulfield being different and isolating himself from others during his time. Although Manhattan today is different from the Manhattan in the story, "The Big Apple" is a place for people to express/be themselves which is somewhat a beginning to alienation. People in New York are practically on their own and doing their own thing for their own interest (cynicism). The culture and atmosphere of the city is the opposite of the culture and atmosphere in San Diego due to people being somewhat dependent on others which is nothing like how Caulfield is in the story.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the scene between Ackley and Caulfield, I did detect irony between what he was saying to Ackley and his internal thoughts. What I found most ironic was when the narrator states, "He hated everybody's guts, dam near." because Caulfield was saying Ackley hated everybody's guts yet he was always the one saying bad about others and always having a negative light on others. To me, it seemed like Caulfield is also one who "hated everybody's guts, dam near." To compare this scene to the previous conversation with Mr. Spencer, Caulfield is constantly contradicting himself when talking with others. With Mr. Spencer, Caulfield would say one thing but think the opposite same as he did with Ackley. I picked up a little bit of sarcasm when he would talk to Ackley but when it came to Mr. Spencer, I figured he only said the certain things he said and did not speak his mind as he somewhat does with Ackley to respect his superiors.
- Alyssa Caramoan
The reason that I believe New York is significant in the novel is because New York is always view as a place where there are always masses of people and also a place that is always awake, it brings a contrast to Holden because he is a lonely and lacks of emotions. I agree with Noah that Holden’s character is paralleled by the setting. For example, if the setting had taken place in San Diego I feel that the reaction towards Holden’s character would have been different because when we think of a place as San Diego we think of a warm place where everyone is friendly and Holden been the outcast it would have made the character be less likable. Also, Manhattan’s keeps the story active and even when Holden has the opportunity to hang out with people he still decided that they were not good enough for his entertainment.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mr. Rodriguez’s question, I think that is ironic how Holden makes fun of Ackley for things he also does like isolation. Holden says that Ackley hates everyone and has no friends but isn’t that what also does Holden? I feel that even when Holden claims they’re not friends, they have this relationship that us the readers can relate to friendship but for them is just a relationship without a title.
-Carolina Estrada
I never paid much attention to the fact that the story was taken place in New York, not until I read this post. After reading the comments of my peers I agree that the setting of the book being in New York, specifically Manhattan, plays a significant role to the novel. When thought of New York, even the older parts, a person can imagine a lot of people with desire to do something; an aspect of a daily hustle and bustle lifestyle, and because of this it impacted the story greatly. Taken that into consideration, even though Holden lives in one of the busiest cities he still feels alienated. If this story was to be taken place somewhere else, such as San Diego or some small town in the midwest, Holden would no longer feel alienated, thus changing his actions and the whole story entirely.
ReplyDeleteThe scene taking place on page 19 is when Robert Ackley and Holden are in the dorms by themselves while everyone else was at a big football game for the school. Holden characterized him off of his appearance and this immature mindset of how he pretty much hated everybody. He describes Ackley that of course would be in the room instead of at the game because “he hardly ever went anywhere”. The scene is ironic because Holden is criticizing Ackley for something he is doing too. Holden always has something to say about anybody or anything. He constantly seemed to have an opinion, just like senior Ackley. They were both stubborn in their own way, and can even be viewed as being outsiders in some sense because they rather be alone that at a big football game.
-Alyssa Ariza
When one thinks about Manhattan, New York, it holds the image of a very big and busy city. I can detect that the setting relates back to his issue with alienation. A very isolated, confused teenage boy is in one of the busiest cities in the world, which is very ironic. And it was always difficult for Holden to conquer that loneliness that he struggles with. However, he is traveling from place to place in New York and meets people that he does not believe to have any connection with. Which is also ironic for someone who has been shown as lonely and very much cynical to go to so many places. But I believe that he is moving from one place to another so quickly because that is how he escapes from people, then only again being isolated. New York shows a significant image of being an adult. There are a lot of jobs and businesses and just adult-like activities that go around in New York. So, New York is where Holden undergoes what its like to be an adult in the real world and comes to conclusion that he wants no part in it.
ReplyDeleteThe judgements that Holden holds over Robert Ackley is very ironic, especially in the scene where they are both in the dorms instead of going to the football game like everyone else. Holden describes Ackley as lonely with a "terrible personality". On the other hand, Holden too, is lonely but he resents Ackley's "neediness" on his outcast. This shows the hypocrisy of Holden's thinking, and also just the thought that he is superior to everyone else.
-Maya Ruane
I think that NYC as a setting really sets the tone of the novel, not only is it a large city seen as "the city that never sleeps" and where there are endless opportunities for young people, but it is also one of the busiest cities in the world, it is a place where a person can easily get lost and feel alone in a huge crowd of people, this relates to Holden's personality as his character develops in the novel, and it is quite ironic because he is a person who mostly alienates himself from the world, and the way he narrates his social encounters makes it seem as if he values being by himself rather than having pointless conversations with other people that he runs into in the city.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden criticizes Ackley because in a way, he mirrors his personality, he is a loner but he doesn't really accept it, so he talks down on Ackley and says that he has a bad personality in order to give himself a sense of superiority even though in reality, both characters are really similar to eachother, on page 19 he describes Ackley as a "very peculiar guy" and mentions that he rarely goes anywhere while they were both alone in the dorms while everyone else is out at the football game, this says a lot about Holden and his own personality, and how he judges other people to make himself feel better about his actions.
Being a native Californian, New York is certainly foreign to me. Due to Holden’s curious nature and knack for getting into difficult situations, mid-twentieth century Manhattan seems to be the perfect setting for his story as previously stated by Anna Leon, Brenden Gregorio, and Julia Alo. New York is often used as a setting in novels where the protagonist gets themselves into troublesome circumstances, and thus, Holden is at the heart of trouble. As I myself have never visited New York, while reading The Catcher in the Rye, I could only imagine the towering skyscrapers, legendary museums, and hustle and bustle of the city that Holden saw regularly. If the setting of this novel had been anywhere but New York, Holden would have encountered very different characters and have gotten himself into different types of trouble. Perhaps these characters would be less eccentric and noteworthy compared to those found within the depths of New York.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Holden’s encounter with Ackley, I agree with several of my peers that his perception of Ackley, whom he hates, reveals quite a bit about himself. Holden makes fun of Ackley for never going anywhere (as in school events), when he himself is sitting in his room reading a book during a school football game while making this observation. According to Holden, Ackley has a “nasty personality”, and he “hated everybody’s guts, damn near”. Both of these phrases can be equally applied to Holden, and his negative personality demonstrated so far. Even though I don’t agree that Holden and Ackley can be considered the same people, I do believe that Holden is bothered by Ackley for the very characteristics that he himself possesses.
While characters such as Ackley may not have the most pleasant of personalities, from what Holden has shown so far, it is safe to say that the people he describes may not be as terrible as he makes them out to be. Rather, Holden has a tendency to exaggerate and oftentimes look for the worst in people. As shown by Holden’s observations of those who surround him, it seems to me that he either despises or adores the people he encounters. For that reason, it is difficult for him to build any long-lasting or worthwhile friendships. It is also why he is so nonchalant about failing out of several schools, as he has no significant ties to the places he has been, and therefore, no one to miss when he leaves.
I strongly believe this novel would not keep its unique essence if the setting were changed from Manhattan, New York to any other urban city such as San Diego. First and foremost the two cities are completely different and most tourists can agree. These two metropolitan cities have different cultures, architecture, and an overall atmosphere, especially New York. The grandeur of Manhattan adds to Holden's journey and I believe it the setting was relocated to a different city such as Los Angeles, a renowned location, just as popular as New York, Holden's journey and story would be different. The museums. Central Park, theatres, bars, and most importantly the people he encounters influence Holden's thoughts and actions. Personally, I see a small man in a big world, and knowing Holden is in Manhattan keeps me exciting as a reader on what his next encounter will lead to.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to Holden and Ackley's friendship it can be seen to me as ironic. It is only obvious that for the most part Holden is constantly annoyed by Ackley, but at times can also feel sorry for him. Also, Holden has mentioned the name "Ackley kid" many times, knowing it frustrates Ackley, but what I find interesting is how he refers to Ackley as a "kid". Holden has been struggling with growing up and is now going into the early years of adolescence, and based on my observations Holden severely dislikes it when someone belittles him or thinks of him as a child, especially when attending bars and ordering drinks. Furthermore, I have come across multiple times where Holden describes his actions in certain occasions as "childish" and this all comes to me as ironic, why does he belittle Ackley as being this "child" so much? It is hard for me to really understand his purpose in doing so but, I believe the that he does this because Holden himself knows at times he can be "childlike" and teases Ackley to comfort himself in knowing there is someone worse.
-Mariana Velasco
The setting in the novel catcher in the rye is taken in Manhattan that reveal many qualities in our narrator Holden. Manhattan represents rebellion due to the explosion of drugs, alcohol, sex and many clubs. This city is very populated unlike other cities in the world. If the setting was taken in a small town Holden would have not been able to isolate himself and been able to explore the city and be somewhat free with no restrictions, besides age. He finds himself going to different bars and clubs which cannot be down in a place like San diego where it is more relaxed and less busy. After analyzing the photos of manhattan we can differently see that the area was wide opened and there were a lot of people, just like Holden exploring.
ReplyDeleteAckley is described as someone who is messy, not well known or liked, and not so smart. I find it ironic how Holden makes fun of him so much but still hangs out with him. If he can’t stand him then why is he still with him. When Holden makes fun of Ackley we can see that he is very judgmental and doesn’t care about anybody else expect himself. Like other students have noticed, I also believe that Holden and Ackley are similar in the way that they like to be isolated and are not well known compared to Stradlater. Another thing that is ironic is after Holden and Stradlater get in a fight, holden decides to go to Ackleys room even if he thinks his annoying and a phoonie.
Holden Caulfield shares much of Ackley's qualities that he criticizes disapprovingly. Holden Caulfield shared the same annoyance when his reading was interrupted by Ackley and when acted childish and disrespectful towards Ackley. They both act like introverts and loathe the company of others. Caulfield also shares a commonality with Mr. Spencer in how they both speak to each other as phony's. Caulfield rebukes Mr. Spencer for using the phony word "grand" while he speaks untruthfully to his teacher. This occurs when Holden told him he would do the same exact thing he did if he were a teacher when he clearly stated previously that he would not read out lead the students paper. He concealed his grudge from Spencer with fake words of acceptance and understanding. This resembles how he looks down himself as he looks down on others like him. This explains why he does little to take care of himself in academically and socially. He tries to hide his insecurities by observing the negatives of others.
ReplyDelete- Alyssa Jayne Rosario
After analyzing and seeing the photos of Manhattan, as well as recounting my knowledge of the importance of big cities, I realize that this setting plays an vital role throughout the novel. The city provides a place for Holden to be free. In other words, the city is where people make their dreams come true. In the city, Holden’s sense of alienation increases because of the sheer variety of people and their pace in life. He is unable to connect with any of the people due to the abundance of different lifestyles. This could also be part of the reason that Holden hires an escort, Sunny. He seeks conformity, therefore leading him to do actions such as wanting a drink in a bar even though he is still underaged. Manhattan provides a chaotic and busy setting, and also provides different social standards. People were more open and willing in the cities. For example, if the story were to take place in the, the social standards would be more different in the sense that it would be more conservative. The location of the setting helps determine the standard of society.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the question of Holden and Ackely, I agree with a few of my peers that Holden can see himself in Ackley therefore leading Holden to make fun of Ackely as a means of defense. For instance, Holden and Ackley both share a passion for reading. Holden explains how “ what really knocks me out is a book that when you’re all done reading it, you wish the author that wrote it was a terrific friend of yours” (chap. 3, pg 26). Therefore, Holden makes fun of Ackley by calling him a nerd, because he himself does not want to be alienated in society in that way. Also, Holden and Ackley seem to have some close relationship, one that is maybe not even friendship. For example, Holden still gets scissors for Ackley even though they are in his suitcase. A tennis racket falls on Holden, yet he still manages to do this deed.
To conclude, the city of Manhattan provides the freedom that Holden needs. It also emphasizes his alienation from society through the diverse fast paced lives of many people. Also, Holden’s relationship with Ackley emphasizes his need to fit in society. He sees similarities in Ackley relatable to him, causing him to attack and judge him.
After reading Brenden Gregorio's comment, I would like to agree on what he had said about the setting and its importance. I especially agree with his claim that the towering high-rises would leave a sense of insignificance within him, ad is he were a tiny little speck. For me I would definitely get the sense of being inferior or unimportant to everything else around me. Which is probably what Holden could be experiencing himself. I mean, not only being taken in Manhattan, but the fact that he has gotten kicked out of so many schools including the Private school he was just in, would definitely add on to that sense of unimportance and alienation. To add onto Brenden's statement about Manhattan playing a key role because of its weather revealing Holdens pessimistic view of the world, I would also like to say that there is a thing called seasonal affective disorder (SAD). This disorder is also known as "winter depression" and mainly occurs in dark gloomy seasons, like winter. Now, it has not been stated in the book that this is occurring, but I think it is safe to infer that this disorder could also be happening to Holden. In part of that, If the setting were to take place in a city like San Diego where it is almost always sunny, that disorder would not occur either, as well as the author not being able to show the harshness of the season and how it could effect Holden.
ReplyDeleteOnto chapter 3, the scene where Holden and Ackley spend time together away from the football game. Holden accuses Ackley of hating everybody's guts (page 26). The ironic thing about this is that throughout the novel, Holden judges people so much he could come off as hateful himself. Overall, I believe that Holden mainly comes off as a hypocrite, even though it is clear he does not see that himself. He claims he hates phonies, but in chapter 3 he states "I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life" (page 22). That statement alone shows his hypocrisy because he claims he hate phonies yet he shows himself to be one, as a liar.
-Mariah Brown
Having the setting of The Catcher in the Rye being placed in mid-1900s Manhattan shows significance throughout the book. Manhattan, one of New York City’s five boroughs, was the third most populated of the boroughs. This plays a huge role in the novel because, although there was an immense amount of people, Holden found that he couldn’t exactly relate to anyone, causing him to feel lonely and search for companionship. Had the story taken place in today’s San Diego, it would have been very different. Although San Diego does have a large population, it isn’t as swarming as Manhattan. It also would have turned out differently, considering how the Catcher in the Rye took place in post-war America, which somewhat influences the novel. Also, had Holden been narrating in today’s San Diego, the theme of the book possibly may not have been alienation. This is due to the teenagers in today’s society behaving somewhat similar to how Holden acts. This would lead to Holden possibly being able to find the companionship he was looking for in 1950’s Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mr. Rodriguez’s question, it is rather ironic how Holden depicts Ackley the way he does, putting emphasis on his poor physical features, although having a somewhat close, comfortable friendship with him (but not really admitting it exists). I think I have to agree with Abegail Caraulia when she says, “I think Holden sees in Mr. Spencer and Ackley. Perhaps he sees bits of himself in Mr. Spencer and Ackley in their own individual alienation from Mr. Spencer’s odd habits or Ackley’s unpopularity and annoyance. Maybe Holden feels insecure about himself and takes it out on others to obscure it. Holden talks about how Ackley hated everyone’s guts and seems annoyed by it but ironically Holden is the same way.”
Manhattan is a huge, bustling city with towering buildings and a variety of different people. That being said, Manhattan is the perfect location for “The Catcher in the Rye.” Manhattan helps to signify just how much of an introvert Holden truly is. Although the city is always busy, Holden always seems to be lonely. He does, at times, put in an effort to socialize like when he went to the Lavender Room and asked Bernice, Marty and Laverne to dance with him, however there are so many things he could be doing in such a busy city, yet chooses not to do so.
ReplyDeleteWith Manhattan being such a popular city, it is full of rebellious things to do such as drugs and alcohol. If the setting of the novel were in a more run down city such as one in the Midwest, then Holden would not be running into as many of these problems. He also would not be getting into trouble as much.
Manhattan experiences an intense winter every year. This harsh weather reflects Holden’s intensely, negative attitude. If instead of Manhattan, the novel took place in San Diego, then there would be pessimistic Holden in a sunny location. That doesn’t quite fit.
Referring back to Mr. Rodriguez’s question, Holden mocking Ackley is very ironic. Holden makes fun of Ackley’s acne. He explains that “…he had a lot of pimples. Not just on his chin or his forehead, like most guys, but all over his whole face.” In other words he is blaming Ackley for being different than the other guys, yet Holden, himself, is different than the other guys. Holden and Ackley are in the same situation and instead of Holden making fun of Ackley, he should be getting along with him.
-Caroline Beel
Manhattan is a big and busy city filled with tall skyscrapers and so many different types of people, which make the city unique and quite like no other. Having been to Manhattan myself, I can say that the great city was eye-opening for me because of its grand diversity. All of the clubs, business buildings, hotels, stores, traffic, and numerous people that fill the streets 24/7 can be intimidating. In my opinion, New York is a place for adults and not minors, like Holden, who is roaming the streets on his own. Anyone in this huge city can get into trouble or danger because of popular things that occur such as drugs, crime, alcohol, and sex. On the contrary, if the setting was placed in a small town in the Midwest, I believe it would be much harder for Holden to get into the amount of trouble that he does. There are no intimidating skyscrapers or thousands of people roaming the streets, which makes a small Midwest town the complete opposite of Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteThe season in which the story takes place is just as significant as the place. As my fellow peers have stated before me, the unforgiving and brutal winter that takes place in Manhattan correlates with Holden's cynicism. If the setting were to take place in sunny San Diego, then it would have no impact on Holden's feelings or attitude.
The scene on page 19 between Holden and Ackley is ironic because Holden illustrates Ackley as a nerd, but Holden is trying to read when Ackley barges into his room. Caulfield describes Ackley as "a very peculiar guy... with lousy teeth... a lot of pimples... [and] sort of a nasty guy" (Salinger 26). This shows that Holden is judgmental and critical of others, not realizing that he himself can be criticized just as easily.
-Shalin Nirmal
I would like to start off by explaining on why the author decided to choose New York City as a setting for a character like Holden. It is quite obvious Holden is an outsider in the novel, that is why the author decides to place him in one of the busiest cities in New York. Manhattan is known for being one of the busiest cities in the world, this helps Holden fully explore alienation. Since Holden has trouble connecting with his peers at Pencey, Manhattan serves as an opportunity for him to figure out the type of people he could relate to.
ReplyDeleteNow, when analyzing Holden, as Mr. Rodriguez stated, one must look at the things he does and says to fully understand the character. Based off the people he idolizes, one could assure themselves that Holden has a somewhat dark mind. When Holden says he wouldn't mind calling up Thomas Hardy, the author of one of the most gruesome novels, it makes the audience question his sanity. Holden also claims that his red hat is a people shooting hat, all of these things make one believe Holden is not all up there. Later on we find out that Holden is a skinny weak boy when he gets into a fight with Stradlater.
The scene in which Holden makes fun of Ackley is very much ironic because many of the things he criticizes him for, Holden himself also does or has. For example when talking about Ackley's horrible personality, one might recall that many scenes throughout the novel show how bad of a personality Holden has. In the opening chapter Holden opted out pf watching the football game and decided to sit on a hill, later on he refused to go tot he movie theaters with his friends because he does not like watching movies with people who laugh at things that are not funny. All of these scenarios make this particular scene very ironic
-Roberto Sevilla
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteFirst, I find it interesting how big of an impact the New York setting has on the novel as the story develops. For example, it seems as if he has a lot of liberty with no restrictions; except his age at times. I think that New York represents him being more alienated and independent. In contrast, if the setting was a small town, the story would be very different. In New York, Holden has a lot of liberties but, in a small town he would not have nearly the same amount of adventures.
Lastly, Holden’s judgmental comments about Ackley and his other classmates make him a negative and hateful character in the novel. Throughout the novel it seems as if Holden only sees the negative or different side of his classmates. He never says anything good or praiseful about anyone. This aspect of his character and personality contributes to why he is so isolated and alienated from everyone else. I think that this ties in together with the setting. It seems that Salinger chose this setting to reflect Holden’s life and attitude.
As I continued to read the novel I was completely aware that the setting took place in the large city of Manhattan. I thought it was interesting how a young boy like Holden Caulfield took a break from his regular life in a city so large, such as the Big Apple. In my own point of view, Manhattan has somewhat of a special connection with the protagonist, Holden Caulfield because his escape into the city could relate back to the topic of alienation. I have to agree with my peers when they say that this novel wouldn't be the same if it didn't take place in New York. Holden wants to isolate himself from everybody he knows, and the best way to do that is by going to a place with thousands of people that do not know him and pretending to fit in. If the Catcher in the Rye’s setting would have been somewhere like San Diego, the overall topic of isolation would not be as relevant to the audience because Holden would not be able to escape and isolate himself from his family and friends as well as he did in a city like Manhattan.
ReplyDeleteThroughout chapter three Holden begins to make fun of Ackley for being antisocial and unhygienic. However, it wasn’t until my second read when I figured out that Holden was judging Ackley for hating all of his classmates and being unsocial when Holden, himself disliked most of his classmates and acquaintances. For example, at the beginning of the third chapter Holden points out how Ackley hardly ever liked going out, but Holden didn’t attend the football game either, or any other social events that involved his classmates for that matter. He also points out Ackley’s hatred for most of the kids at Pencey, but ironically, Holden finds a lot of flaws in his classmates and complains about most of them as well. I believe that this topic is very important because Holden constantly tries to act as if he is completely normal and social, however he contradicts himself with other things he says throughout the chapters. I believe that this may connect back to him writing from a mental institution because he might want to seem as if he is completely normal, but in reality he isn’t really the person he sets himself to be.
New York to this day is one of the most visited states in America. Many exciting and adventerous things are located in New York, so it would make sense that books during this time fantasized the city. Setting the story in New York only brought attention to Holden's feelings of alienation. This thickened the plot and allowed readers to see how Holden was as a character.
ReplyDeleteTo address Holden's attitude toward Ackely in chapter 3, we as readers can tell that Holden is just jealous of Ackely. He's good looking, athletics and a social butterfly, everything Holden wishes he could be. Holden is very insecure and feels threatened by Ackelys presence.
I feel New York is a perfect fit for this novel as it is an embodient of the motto as the U.S being the "land of opportunity." With that Holden has opportunity to do so much and experience so much. it helps with the theme of coming to age as it is evident how Holden is experiencing adult events such as drugs, clubs, sex, etc. Also, as some of my peers suggested it can help represent the alienation for Holden. That he is alone in the masssive setting that is New York city. If the novel was set in a smaller town I feel like Holden would not have as much opportunity as he did in New York. And as well as in place I believe time period plays an important role as well. If this book was set in modern times, Holden most likely would not have been allowed in clubs or allowed to drink alcohol or get a prostitue as the laws are more stricter. If the novel was set in modern time it would not have as much meaning in terms of the setting since independence is hard to gain until one reaches 18 or 21.
ReplyDeleteAbout Holden's interaction towards Ackley, I agree with my peers that it is ironic because Holden shares similarities with Ackley. They both tend to avoid major school events and they both tend to get very pestering. As Ackley would ask a lot of questions, Holden expresses similar characteristics when he is at the Wicker Bar with old Luce. Holden is constantly asking Luce about his sex life and Luce is showing similar frustration that Holden displayed when Ackley would ask a lot of questions. I believe Holden was rude to Ackley only because Holden saw himself in Ackley and despised how he is and how alienated he is.
-Sergio Renteria
I believe the setting of Manhattan is crucial because Manhattan is a city, and cities are usually busy and nobody really has time to stop because they're always trying to get somewhere else and there's always something they have to do. It's ironic that Holden makes fun of Ackley for being nerdy because when Stradlater asks Holden to do his homework for him, Holden does it and this is the typical "Nerd" move. Also, I feel like Holden wishes he was "nerdy" like Ackley because then he would not be getting kicked out of Pencey, since he is being kicked out for not making grades. Holden making fun of Ackley can be a sign of him trying to get his self esteem up because sometimes people only bring others down when they want to feel better about themselves. Also, it makes Holden out to be very judgmental. Whenever things do not seem to be going Holden's way he changes the topic or talks about the situation in a negative way, he had said that Ackley "hates" everyone however, with Holden being judgmental I think he interprets everything poorly because he seems to be the one that really does hate people.
ReplyDelete-Briana Rios
I feel like the New York/ Manhattan area as a setting is a perfect place for a character such as Holden Caulfield. Manhattan and New York are bustling cities where everyone is busy and has somewhere to go. It is a perfect place for an individual with an independent attitude such as Holden. Also, I can imagine that during that era, the rule of thumb around the city was "survival of the fittest". This leaves Holden to be more reliant on himself and to trust no one. I believe the setting has greatly effected Holden to become the independent and immature teen he is depicted in the story.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I also found the scene with Ackley and Holden ironic. Mostly because, if I recall correctly, Holden commented on Ackley not going anywhere at all, when really Holden does the same. Also, he depicts Ackley as very annoying for having no manners, however Holden is also being rude in his own way by judging his fellow room mate. Many of Holden's actions are very hypocritical and reveal a lot about how Holden's perspective is very biased.
The story uses New York as the perfect setting to have this story set in because it allows the reader to see the insignificance of Holden as a person further emphasizing his isolation when considering the mass population that New York is associated with. So if the story were to make a transition from the large city to somewhere like San Diego then the story would change and the isolation theme would be a bit more difficult to sell to the reader.
ReplyDeleteThe way Holden views Ackley as someone that “hated everybody’s guts” (pg 19) is ironic because Holden, someone that we view as very cynical and hates or at least judges everyone negatively, seems unaware of the similarity between himself and Ackley. This scene with Ackley supports the recurring cynicism that we see in Holden when it comes to other people. This scene also has a connection to the scene with Mr. Spencer as Holden decides to judge both of their exterior attributes in the most negative way such as “he had a lot of pimples.” (pg 19) which is similar to when he talked to Mr. Spencer he thought of Spencer’s “Old guys’ legs, at beaches and places, always look white and unhairy” (pg 7) showing a connection between these two conversations both being cynical.
-Cristian Hernandez
The use of New York for the story's setting is brilliant because when I went to New York I felt as though I was isolated due to the towering buildings and the ongrowing population. Due to my view of how I felt, I feel as though Holden may feel more isolated here than he would in the Midwest or in San Diego. I feel as though Holden would have a different experience here in San Diego simply for the fact that we have so many activities to do in which involve many others, causing less isolation.
ReplyDeleteBased on our recent discussions we can already conclude that Holden does indeed speak negatively towards others. But, as I went through this scene I noticed that the insults that Holden was giving Ackley seemed to be things that he could relate to himself. He also states that Ackley "hates" everybody and this would be true if he were talking about himself, showing that he is possibly jealous of his classmates or he is insecure about the way he is. Holden also seems to be an individual that does not enjoy others around him, making the person that seems to hate everyone.
Manhattan played a central role as the setting for the Catcher in the Rye. It is a sleepless city that is filled with a countless amount of people and is always lively. The aura of this city contrasts to how Holden is always shrouded in loneliness and feels isolated. Although many interactions arise between Holden and others in the book, he does not ever seem fully satisfied with what he gets out of any of it and seems to enjoy the company of himself rather than with anyone else. If the story were to take place in somewhere like San Diego where it is always sunny and very relaxing, it would not capture or fully express how Holden feels alone. Whereas Manhattan is freezing during the time Holden is there and it is a bustling city where everyone keeps moving. This type of setting can correspond to Holden’s emotions.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Holden and Ackley in the dorm, just as many of my peers have stated previously, I agree that Holden makes fun of Ackley because he is a mirror image of himself. Holden criticizes Ackley because “He hardly ever went anywhere” although Holden does the same thing because he always feels lonely. He criticizes Ackley because he does not want to accept and see his own self reflection even though he and Ackley are both similar, which justifies why he always speaks negatively of others.
-Sarah Solis
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ReplyDeleteIn correlation with Holden’s alienation, the setting of the novel significantly impacts Holden’s life because it provides him with the independence and liberty to live the way he wants considering that New York is huge and a city full of diversity. In Response to Mr. Rodriguez, if the setting would have been centered in San Diego, as most of my classmates stated, the attitude and relationship of Holden would have been told in a different tone and therefore would not connect as well to the aspect of the narrator’s alienation in society. I believe one of the factors that contributed to Holden’s alienation is due to the fact that he is in a school that is located in New York. New York allows him the liberty to explore and find his own identity.
ReplyDeleteWhat I found ironic in the scene that takes place between the narrator and Ackley is that he himself seemed to be criticizing Ackley and portraying him as a loner who is nerdy and has no friends but as some of my peers have said he himself is seen as a loner because Ackley and himself were the only ones not at the football game. Also the way Holden described Ackley defined the actions and thoughts Holden has been expressing throughout the novel making them very similar in many ways.
-Nubia Alvarez
New York, especially in the mid twentieth century, represented the big bad world, the heart of corruption. It is where Holden witnesses the realities of being an adult and decides he does not want any part of it. However, it also has its innocent hideaways for kids, like the museum that Holden idolizes. But mostly, it is the scene of the corrupt world that Holden seeks to protect children from. In another light, the New York City setting allows Holden to fully experience alienation, he is unable to relate to the people he meets, alone in the busiest city in the world. However, he recognizes that connecting with people is the only way to overcome this loneliness. Similar to Pencey Prep, New York is the antithesis of Holden’s personality and interests, as he would much rather be a deaf-mute living alone in a log cabin.
ReplyDeleteAs for the scene with Ackley, I found it ironic that Holden was criticizing Ackley for being a “nerd” and for not attending the game, when, ironically, he is not either. I find that Holden is aware of his own alienation, but chooses to attack Ackley for it instead in a means to release any of his own guilt. In relation to the previous scene with Mr. Spencer, I realized that Holden speaks down to both Ackley and Mr. Spencer, as if he was a better, more educated person. Holden also refuses to accept any of his flaws: for example, he could not acknowledge that he was failing out of Pencey, so he ended the conversation, also he could not come to means that he himself was a nerd, so he called out Ackley for his own flaws.
I believe that having the story take place in Manhattan was necessary in advancing the plot. Being in the densely populated and business/commercial heart of New York, Holden had the chance to explore and express his freedom. However traveling throughout Manhattan, Holden struggled to fit in, often sneaking into bars and having to lie about his age. If the story would have possibly taken place in another city or state, I believe that Holden would definitely not have the same experience as he did in New York City. As for Holden seemed to be extremely familiar with the Manhattan area. For example, he had many acquaintances to contact in times of need, seemed to know where every bar was, and was knowledgeable about the general area. Holden may have faced different consequences or a more unique crowd of people if story would’ve take place in San Diego. Additionally, San Diego is known for being a laid-back and family oriented city as compared to New York City, where many people relocated to with the purpose of finding new opportunities. On the subject of Holden and Ackley, I agree with Jered Relopez on that the scene on pg 19 was ironic because Holden and Ackley do share some similarities. Holden called out Ackley for sticking out of the crowd, yet Holden pretty much does the same.
ReplyDelete-Jassin Reyes
This book has a setting of Manhattan during the post-war era. New York City was affluent in global economics and trade and during the night the city was packed with people at music clubs and bars. Holden transports us to many of the city's most remarkable landmarks, for example, Grand Central, Central Park, Broadway, and the Rockefellar Center. So, for a 16 year old boy coming from a privileged family to feel so lonesome and hold such a hatred for society during this era makes Holden a distinguished character. The setting is important in the storyline and brings out important themes in the novel.
ReplyDeleteFor example the theme of phoniness would be as significant if the setting was in a rural area or a small town. During this time period, the majority of the people desired to be mainstream and valued material things and conformity. But Holden is the opposite of this which is why he feels lonesome and hates the ideals of people during this time. Another important factor about the setting is that during this time teenagers were allowed more freedom so it is why Holden is smoking, drinking, and speaking coarse.
Although Holden hates phoniness, he sometimes appears to be phony himself. On page 19 Ackley acts macho to hide his insecurity and it is ironic because Holden seems to get annoyed of Ackley's character but he does not see how his own act resembles that of Ackley's. Holden hatred of phoniness seems like it is a hatred of himself but instead of accepting it he critics and finds it in other people.
The location in which the novel takes place in my opinion is optimal because it is suitable for the narrators life, this is because Manhattan is probably very overwhelming due to its size and its features such as tall buildings and crowded streets. This impacts the novel even more because Holden's life is also very overwhelming from what I have read so far. Manhattan is truly significant because as many have mentioned it truly emphasizes the whole "alienation" struggle, since Holden is left alone to explore the big city at such a young age. If the setting would have been in San Diego or a small town I feel like the perspective would have a major turn, this being Caulfield's alienation in society.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Mr. rodriguez's question, When I first read the scene where Holden is judging Ackley's personality, first thing I thought about was the popular saying, " people who are too much alike usually crash." In other words, Holden is presenting Ackley in such a negative context, but its almost as if he was describing himself. "He hated Stradlater's guts and he never came in the room if Stradlater was around, he hated everybody's guts, damn near." (Page 23) This in my opinion displays irony because throughout the first few chapters, we see how Caulfield tends to blame his surroundings with such hate, this including schoolmates and even family members. This scene can definitely relate to the scene where Caulfield has a meeting with Mr.Spenser, his history teacher. The thing that connects these two scenes is the fact that the narrator tends to array the worst features when introducing other characters.
-Yaressy Garcia
I believe that the setting of new York City isn't what we expect because we know New York City as a big fancy glamorous place to live and scooting to the book Holden describes it as a depressing place to live. The setting also see the emotions on how Holden feels because it is very cold and Holden is a cold hearted person throughout the novel.I find that through the book Holden hates everyone just as much as he hates Ackleys guts
ReplyDeleteI believe that the setting of new York City isn't what we expect because we know New York City as a big fancy glamorous place to live and scooting to the book Holden describes it as a depressing place to live. The setting also see the emotions on how Holden feels because it is very cold and Holden is a cold hearted person throughout the novel.I find that through the book Holden hates everyone just as much as he hates Ackleys guts
ReplyDeleteTypically, when a character is placed in such a heavily populated urban area such as Manhattan, the character is searching for a dramatic change in their current lifestyle. This portrayal of character's are usually seen in Broadway musicals or major movies. This character first comes into the city feeling lost and alienated by the city dwellers who reside in the urban area, then eventually assimilates into their new life.
ReplyDeleteIn Holden Caulfield's case, the setting of the novel is unique to the plot of the story because of how alienated he feels to begin with. After looking at the links provided, I could imagine how lost and confused I would feel if I were to be placed in a urban area such as Manhattan. Similar to my personal feelings, I would imagine Manhattan to be a perfect space for Holden because the city reflects internally about how he feels like he does not belong in any place he goes, which reflect how some might feel going into an urbanely populated area for the first time. In addition, as Brenden Gregorio originally stated, and countless students have agreed upon, I also agree that the weather and season the novel is set in plays a key role in building up Holden's persona. The cold and desolate feels that come from the thought of a snowy, winter time parallels the cold and distant personality Holden holds.
If the novel was set in a small town in the Midwest, it would not capture the essence of how Holden feels internally and emotionally. In Manhattan, Holden feels isolated, which makes him feel unconnected with the rest of society, leading him to feel even more cold-hearted. Rather, in the Midwest, Holden would feel freedom rather than being trapped. In addition, if the novel took place in a space such as sunny San Diego, it would not fit Holden's persona because the freezing temperature is a parallel to Holden's icy personality. Therefore, the bright weather of San Diego would undermine Holden's true personality.
Finally, the fact that Holden makes fun of Ackley gives us a glimpse of how Holden boosts his self esteem by painting others to be inferior to himself. In reality, Ackley may have some pet peeves that Holden does not appreciate,but Ackley is not as annoying as Holden depicts him to be. Similarly, Holden makes out Mr. Spencer to be a man that asks too many questions and repeats the same phrases; in reality, Mr. Spencer is trying to show Holden care and affection. But instead, Holden chooses to reject this care and shut Mr. Spencer's advice out by finding bad traits about him as well. I believe this has become a habit of Holden because he is insecure about himself, and feels the need to degrade others to make himself feel better about himself.
-Jennifer Ma
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ReplyDeleteI actually think that the setting is extremely important to understanding parts of the book, because in certain scenes the main character is shown to be traveling somewhere and for those who don't know or have never been to those places, imagining the scenery is harder. Looking at the pictures and the way it is described throughout the book in minute details help to present the readers with what Caulfield's world looks like.
ReplyDeleteCertain details about the scenery can also lead to inferences or maybe connections to the story. For instance when Caulfield left Pencey Prep, since he eventually goes from Pennsylvania to New York, neighboring states, its important to know the transition that is occurring from state to state. Without knowing where these states lie in accordance to the other, it can create confusion and the scenes can become distorted. That's why knowing where a character is, is so important to the story.
-Anayah Carpio
The unique setting of New York impacts what goes on in the story because of the very feeling of vastness that New York has. The urban life of New York is very unique, as Woody Allen's Manhattan describes: Black and White. I think the setting of New York is also similar to our narrator's personality. As my peers above have stated, New York is a very overwhelming place, even though I myself have not been there, and it also reflects the personality of Holden. I believe the novel would have been very different if the setting were to be in a place such as San Diego due to the very different climates and weather, and finally just the atmosphere of San Diego. San Diego is not a 'Black and White' type of city. I see San Diego as a colorful and much more different than the busy streets of New York.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of Holden's interaction with Ackley, I found it very ironic that Holden is criticizing Ackley for being a nerd. I feel as if Holden is being very hypocritical towards Ackley because Holden himself is guilty to such things. Things such as not conforming to what is expected of Holden, being an individual rather than becoming similar to his peers.
-Rejiryc Perez
In addition to the New York being overwhelming in size, the current season of winter time is also an important trait in the novel's setting. A harsh and unforgiving winter not only mirrors Holden's cynicism, as Shalin stated, but it also shows how the world is treating Holden. A series of unfortunate events is what I mean by this. He was beaten by Stradlater, though he did provoke him to, beaten and robbed by the pimp and the prostitute, and even more.
DeleteSo I agree with you on the issue of different climates makes San Diego ineffective as a setting for Catcher. To mention the midwest setting, it can also be considered overwhelmingly huge. So when Brendon argued that it would fail to give Holden a sense of alienation and inferiority is not completely true. What the midwest fails to convey on the same level of Manhattan as a setting is the type of people that Holden was able to meet, every single person was in a rush and was not in the mood for idle chit chat (think of the cab drivers Holden interacted with).
Also unlike San Diego, New York in the winter is very dull and gloomy at night. Especially with the muddy snow that covers the ground. Being born and raised in New York, from what I remember, all that there is to see other than people rushing are yellow hues bouncing off the crushed soiled snow during the night. I believe that there were not many colorful buildings or breath-taking murals back then that definitely paint the city today. During the time of winter in San Diego, the temperature does not change as drastically as New York. For San Diego, it is extremely rare to see snowfall. It was last seen a little over 50 years ago where a storm so powerful was able to drop temperatures low enough to form snow flakes.
DeleteI perceive New York as a place where people are completely independent, unlike a small town in the Midwest where anyone could recognize one another. People in New York concentrate on what they need to do and avoid getting into business that they have to associate themselves with. New York is like an outlet, an escape to where you do not have to care about anyone as well as have anyone care about you. New York is a place for business. San Diego, on the other hand, is a more relaxed location. A getaway to enjoy the sun and sight-see. On a rare occasion you may hear somebody say they're headed to San Diego for business, but that is not common. It is more common for people to travel to New York for business rather than San Diego. You can hold more of a conversation with someone in San Diego because they are more willing to give you their time compared to people in New York, who are more likely to have something to do.
Manhattan as a setting is essential to the book because it allows Holden to convey various themes such as independence and alienation. This densely populated and compacted area, known as the heart of the Big Apple, facilitates Holden with transportation and gives him a diverse experience from people in a compacted place. On the other hand, San Diego has its wealthy and poor parts separated, hence it would be harder for Holden to be exposed to both the upper and lower classes. I agree with my peer Rejiryc Perez that New York is apt for Holden's personality as Woody Allen's describes it as "Black and White". However, I believe this fits more with Holden associating things as phony or not.
ReplyDeleteIn my perspective, Holden is criticizing Ackley for being different. It is ironic because Holden lacks that confidence to be different in front of his peers. Not only that, but it is evident that Holden is constantly avoiding companionship and advice from people other than his family. Just like what happened with Mr. and Mrs. Spencer where Mr. Spencer specifically chose to talk about Holden's future, I believe Holden is afraid of addressing his flaws; hence feels insecure and has to criticize others in order to make himself feel more accepted in society.
- David Wilson
I agree completely with David's point of view regarding the connection that Holden has with New York City. The setting is crucial to Holden's character as it reflects his personality. The cold harsh winter eastern city's such as New York face reflects Holden's cynical attitude. If the setting were to be a city other than New York, we wouldn't have that stereotypical big city atmosphere where opportunity is right around the corner. In the big city, there is a sense of opportunity where competition can be found easily as many fight for respective social positions. New York, like David mentioned, does expose Holden to the different social classes and living conditions people around the world, which is a unique situation. In a smaller city, Holden would have a different mindset, which would possibly make him more conservative in his actions and what he says. The smaller city atmosphere is where everyone knows each other, and theres no secrets that can be hidden. On another topic, Holden criticizes Ackley which is ironic because he criticizes him for traits that he and Ackley share. Holden demonstrates hypocrisy when he teases Ackley for being different and a "nerd." Holden points out his own insecurities in Ackley by teasing him, which is a cowards way of confronting his own weak points.
DeleteI agree with Jaevante because Holden does demonstrate being critical of others as well as being antisocial. However, I feel as if his descriptions of Ackley are provided to supplement the idea that Holden is immature. Although he does say it bluntly on page 11 that he “acts quite young” for his age, this scene with Ackley happens in the beginning chapters of the book, where Holden’s character is still being introduced and developed. In response to Daniela’s perspective on Holden, I do not think that he is a hateful character throughout the novel. He does point out negative characteristics of those around him, but I do not agree that he does it through hate or dislike. Holden shows that he does not necessarily enjoy or hate Ackley’s presence, but he does invite Ackley to a movie on page 41, which is something people would not usually do if they hated someone. I believe that this is ironic because throughout the book Holden emphasizes his hatred for phonies, but he seems to be one himself. He is two-faced towards Ackley, mentioning that looking at him “damn near made you sick” (page 23), then invites him to a movie two chapters later. Not to mention, by the end of the book he explains missing both Ackley and Stradlater even though their friendships were not typical nor concrete.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteConsidering that I have just visited the big city of New York, I can say that it is a big city where a lot of people go. Having this being said, many people around the world come to the “big apple” to experience the thrill. Although, when I was there I already felt out of place when I began to walk around. All my surroundings were these tall buildings and I felt like I was just a little tiny thing. Just like how Holden feels throughout the whole novel, I felt alienated and felt like there were so many things I couldn’t do even though there were many things to do. New York is mainly just for adults and since Holden was still just a teen he easily would’ve felt out of place. The thing is, is that Holden tried so hard to fit in by inviting people to drink with him and even saying he will pay for a prostitute. In my opinion, Holden is just trying to force himself out of his innocence and be more mature even though he openly says that he acts young for his age. Now if this were to take place in perhaps a small town it would be completely different. People go to the big cities like New York to show people that they are a “hot-shot” and that they actually did something good with their life. Its usually people running away from the small cities not the other way around.
ReplyDelete-Angel Villareal
The setting of New York City wasn't expected because when I think of New York City I imagine it as a big fancy place to live. In the book Holden describes it as a depressing and sad place to live. I find that through the book Holden talks about the people he doesn't like openly.
ReplyDeleteJaylen Brownridge
After taking an in depth look into the setting of New York City, I agree that it's importance revolves around the countless opportunities await for our protagonist. It also relates to his character for Holden as we know thus far has flunked out of numerous schools, hence my belief that he will find something greater within the city. In my personal opinion, the setting just had to be a large city, it could have been Chicago or Las Angeles and it would have had the same effect.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Holden's description of Ackley, it is evident that Holden is a very judgmental person. It is ironic how Holden is reading a book in which he has previously read instead watch the football game and yet still describes Ackley as a nerd. In addition to this, I find it ironic how Holden finds it easy to describe people thoroughly but has difficulty writing an essay later on in the text for Stradlater.
-Devin Wong-Magusara
The setting of New York in my opinion was chosen to best fit the character development of our main character. One important aspect of New York that is later used to help us better understand Holden, is its night life. Further in the novel, we get to see how Holden interacts with women and those around him when he begins to go to the the bars and clubs in New York. More specifically. the Lavender Room and Ernie's. The author wouldn't have been able to show us more about Holden in the effective way that he did if it wasn't for New York's night life. I also believe that the setting of New York was also chosen to compliment the rest of the story. We already know that Pencey is a private school that leans toward the more preppy and high-end style of academics. Given how New York in that time was seen as a city of business where the wealthy would operate and earn their money, it would seem right for Pencey to be located near it. These reasons are what I can see but I wouldn't be surprised if the author had more simple or personal reasons for his selection of New York.
ReplyDelete-Eric Solorio
The reason to why J.D. Salinger base the setting of the story in New York is mainly due to the city being able to offer countless situation for Holden to react and for the reader to further witness his though process depending on the situation. Given to how complex Holden is, constantly saying he hates doing something only to then immediately do said action, and given how complex of a city New York is, gives the reader better understanding on Holden and the type of New Yorkers that Holden interacts with. I feel that if this were to take place anyone else it won't have that same type of opportunities that a city like New York would have for a story.
ReplyDeleteAs for Holden's interaction with Ackely, it does somewhat mirror his "analyzation" of Mr. Spencer. In both cases Holden would constantly notice any type of unmannered act both characters would do when talking to Holden, such as Mr. Spencer attempting to pick his nose and Ackely cutting his nail and having them land all over the floor of the room. As well what my peers have previously mentioned it is ironic on how Holden remarking on Ackely ,considering him to be a nerd when he himself tends to refuse interacting with others. I also found it ironic when Holden states that "Anybody else except Ackely would've taken the goddam hint. Not him though." When Holden on multiple occasions, such as his conversations with Stradlater, Bernice, and Luce, would inadvertently annoy them as well.
-Daniel R. Diaz
In Manhattan, after personally visiting the area, it is a nonstop busy community. I infer that it has always been an area like that. It makes sense for the majority of the setting to take place in Manhattan. It is a parallel to Holden's life. Both unorganized, scattered crazily, and utterly problematic. It captures the events occurring in Holden's life perfectly. All of the drama he is suffering and for it to be centered in Manhattan illuminates his circumstances. I cannot imagine the setting being anywhere else. No other setting would fit Holden's life well as Manhattan does.
ReplyDeleteIn remark to Holden's comment towards Ackley, he repeatedly states how he dislikes phony people. However when Holden describes Ackley as a loner and with a terrible personality, it is ironic since this makes Holden a phony person. Holden and Ackley have similarities between each other, yet Holden does not want to admit it. There is a parallel between them. Holden states how he feels bad for Ackley, does that suggest he also feels bad for himself? Holden hates the person he is, but does not admit it, so instead he admits to disliking Ackley. I believe Ackley is the foil to Holden.
Carola Cabral
DeleteNew York was chosen as the setting for this book because it best encompasses Holden as a character. New York is a very large city, with many people, places, and streets to get lost in. New York’s complexity is equal to the complexity of Holden. Holden is unfriendly to the people he meets and judges them harshly, but also tends to see the good sides of them. New York can seem like a fantastic place to visit for many people, but once you visit there first hand they see the crowds, the loud noises, homeless people, the smell, and pollution and discover it is not the perfect city, but it is still a lovely one with many great sites, culture, and atmosphere. New York can also a place Holden could consider phony with many phony people in it, but not all of them. In a city like a San Diego that is not as large perhaps Holden we would not be able to full understand Holden and see him in the various different faucets that New York offers.
ReplyDeleteThe scene between Holden and Ackley is a true demonstration of Holden’s quick judgments and criticisms of others. The irony in this is that Holden shares quite a few similarities with Ackley in that they both are not attending the game, tend to dislike people, and annoy others. They also seem to get along quite well even though Holden tries to create the illusion that he dislike Ackley despite getting along with him quite well and only appears annoyed by Ackley’s manners. This seems to be because Holden realizes he is not that much different from the people around and then alienates himself from them instead of embracing that not everyone is as horrible as he paints them.
-Atlantis Rodriguez
Although I have never been to New York, I think the reason the setting is so crucial to Holden's story is because NYC represents a life full of possibilities. Look at major movies for example, Wolf of Wall Street or the God Father. In these movies New York is portrayed as almost a great wonderland where the most abstract things could take place. Also with the setting being in New York it gives Holden the chance to be fake or "phony" with anyone he wants considering he would probably never see them again. Which brings me to my second point that if the setting was in a smaller town midwest, the "freedom" that Holden gets to tell his little stories would not be the same. He would have to worry about his story and making sure its the same story every single time he tells it, considering everyone in a little town would know everyone. Surely the way Holden tells different stories left and right, he would eventually get caught in his lie.
ReplyDelete-Isaiah Wilson
I agree with your statement. New York is a grandiose city. Millions of people call it home, and millions more visit to see the city for themselves. Holden is able to meet several strangers with different characteristics in the few days he is there. Holden can get alcohol in one bar, and get refused in another nearby bar. He can visit a museum in the morning, and a play at night. This is not to say that New York City is the only place you can do these. But when one realizes how large New York City is compared to other cities (There are 4.5 million more people in New York City than in Los Angeles), there are so many different areas to visit. If the story were to take place in San Diego, then it would not reality capture the vastness of Holden's atmosphere as well as New York could.
DeleteEven though New York is diverse, however, it is a lot more threatening. For example, Holden is on his own for the better part of the book. When he is sitting by the lake, freezing and alone, he starts worrying that he will die and no one will find him, because New York City is too big. Even if the book could capture this feeling in a city like Chicago, Los Angeles, or Houston, it would not be as dramatic.
-Maxwell Bauer
The setting taking place in New York was a very clever choice seeing how the whole book is about the fear of growing up (my personal opinion) and unlike San Diego in which we all have grown accustomed to the small, convenient and combination of relaxation and city life. But New York is one of americas largest cities in the world and in the 1940's it was a place of crime, and basically not a place for children... a perfect contrast to what Holden is running away from, Adulthood. Even though Holden is originally from New York it does not seem like he should be anywhere near that city with so much temptation and sin at every corner. If Holden would have gone to a smaller city say in California or the south he would not have been in as many issues seeing how there are so many distractions like in the book.
ReplyDeleteThis book contains so many little details and funny inconsistencies just like that, a boy with self destructive tendencies in a city filled with crime and dark secrets. A place a 16 year old should certainly not be alone in. at least not without growing up quickly
-Christian Viscontti
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ReplyDeleteI am not so certain as to why the setting chosen is New York but I can guess that it is to "isolate" Holden from such a busy place as he tends to observe, analyze, and critique everything. New York represents many possibilities as Isaiah mentioned, none that Holden identifies with nor feels like he belongs with. This is partly how his sense of alienation develops and how he continues to become more and more isolated from society.
ReplyDeleteIn the scene where he talks to Ackley, I noticed how Holden's patience is tested. He is unsurprisingly rude and critical of Ackley in his words and thoughts available to the reader. I also think that Holden is especially judging of Ackley due to the fact that Ackley is also an outcast in his own way, and Holden recognizes that. I feel that he tries to seem tough on the outside like he is with everybody else, but really, Holden bears this sympathy with Ackley because of their differences and can even be "real" and kind when in more intimate conversations. Like, the scene where Holden goes into Ackley's dorm and tries to sleep in his roomate's bed; Holden is kinder and tries holding a conversation but Ackley is annoyed.
- Daniela Vargas
I agree with my fellow peers on the fact that the city of Manhattan is definitely a large and busy city with a vast amount of opportunities and experiences as well as for Holden. However, this is ironic due to the fact that he is a confused and lost teenage boy who does not seem to realize all the opportunities that he could be having. After having the chance to visit this city in the past, to me it was just as I had pictured it and read about it in many other novels since it is a popular setting like the Catcher in the Rye. To me it does seem like a place where much can be learned and experienced which is why I believe Manhattan is a crucial setting for the novel.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to how Holden describes and depicts Ackley, it seemed ironic how he mentions him as having a "terrible personality" when Holden seems to be very similar to him in that same aspect due to the fact that he is very critical and judgmental to his surroundings and other people. Holden is also alone just like Ackley however throughout the novel he seems to convince the reader to believe that he is not a teenage boy with similar traits to kids like Ackley and that he knows what he is doing. However, throughout the novel, Holden becomes increasingly more troublesome and with a more difficult personality.
-Mariana Simmons
From the mid twentieth century till now new York isn't only seen as the big bad world but also as a world/state that only has to do with business and also fashion related things. new York has its certain positions for different caliber of people there are designated locations for the rich and also the poor. but one of the most well visited place is Manhattan because of its beautiful skyscrapers and other beautiful museums and collaborative fashion and art artifacts in its region. on my own opinion I believe J.D Salinger based his setting in new York because the city itself helps to create its own sense of meaning which could be abstractly arguable that it helps Holden to mainly find his own liberty in relating and also communicating with others and not isolating himself from an energetic society. Now to address to issue between Holden and Ackley I would expressly say that Holden does not like to mainly be open about himself very much in the public which could be one of the reasons that also led to his mainly and abstractly judgmental sight. this reveals an Ironic side because it helps everyone realize that Holden continues to deny himself at his true feelings because as soon as Holden was given a farewell to Mr. spencer he was upset yet was showing signs of being very bitter about what good luck really meant. For me this helps me realize a similarity between Holden and also Ackley. for me if the story was based in California or san Diego to be precise It will be really different not only for the weather changes but also for the way of life because san Diego isn't as business oriented as new York and also it isn't rowdy so its makes it look completely different. Lastly in the case of Holden's comment made to Ackley I find that his words seemed to carry a kind of judgmental tone which made him throughout the novel a kind of hatful character. Holden also makes it hard for me to also believe that all his classmates were negative which makes t possible that he might be hiding something from us about things that might have occurred that also might have led to his alienation from everyone else. and for me I think this is why Salinger chose this setting to help establish Holden's life and his adventurous attitude.
ReplyDeleteNew York City is a bustling center of activity that is greatly characterized as a safe haven for people of all origins and cultural backgrounds. This of course is an appropriate setting for our protagonist as he ventures beyond the confines of what is familiar. That is, his accommodation with many in his particular social standing and arrangements at Pencey Prep as well as the many prestigious private schools he has attended. The vastness of the city life has provided Holden with a means of interaction with those of distinct upbringings and ideals. Therefore further enlightening Caulfield in his individual journey in the New York city streets. Had it been a smaller setting such as that of San Diego, Caulfield would have not ventured into situations so far into the unknown as in the city that never sleeps.
ReplyDeleteHolden's interaction with Ackley presents itself as a form of irony as his criticisms of his peer undoubtedly pertain to him as well. As he identifies Ackley as an outcast and dislikeable individual, Caulfield's situation seems to parallel that of Ackley in which he has difficulty being in the company of others and building rapport with his peers. This also applies to his interaction with Mr. Spenser. As the novel establishes Holden as a troubled individual, his history teacher's attempt to reach out to him only causes him to seek isolation as a sort of defense mechanism for the troubles he has faced both academically and socially in the span of his short life.
Manhattan's constant movement provides a distraction to the alienated Holden. It provides opportunities for him to act like an adult and test his ability to survive on his own. The city also gave him a sense of connection he really did not have in prep schools and made him part of the hustle and bustle. If the setting was San Diego, the feeling of restlessness would be lost and the amount of interactions Holden could make would be drastically reduced. In a small town, Holden’s little escapade would not even have been possible; there would be nowhere to go to avoid people you know for even a day, let alone three days.
ReplyDeleteThe interaction with Ackley is very interesting to say the least. While he is Holden’s elder, it seems that Holden talks down to him then, when he gets bored, he starts imitating a blind lady and finally he defends his roommate against Ackley’s prejudice. The first portion, along with his previous conversation with his teacher, reveals how Holden does not exactly respect his elders. He judges others and there are many actions and expressions that annoy him. Once he is annoyed, he cannot focus much on the conversation and his thoughts go on a tangent. The next segment displays his childish antics as well as how easily he gets bored. Lastly, the fact that he defended Stradlater shows he has a sense of loyalty, possibly even respect for him.
-Liam brewster
After analyzing elements of New York, with bustling lifestyles, with busy night and days I believe it relates to Holden's turmoil. Similar to the city of Manhattan, is is difficult sometime to find peace in Holden's mind. At the same time New York serves as a distraction, pulling Holden away from the reality of his problems. At times where he feels uncomfortable, such as his last days at Pence, he decides to runaway. New York became part of his escape.
ReplyDeleteDuring the football game and his conversation with Ackley, one of the first things he mentions is how he is aware what annoys Ackley and uses that for his advantage. Knowing that he is an elder, he refers to him as "'Ackley'" kid. Something iintresting I found was how he judged Ackley for judging others without complete justification. Yet from what happend previously, he kept judging other peers, teachers, and family members without justification. He might hate Ackley since he sees part of him in Ackley.Comparing Holdens conversation with Spenser to Ackleys, as other peers have mentioned, he gets distracted. After the conversation he feels that there seems nothing important enough for him to receive from it. He does not respect Spenser for being a sick elder, and even mentions how that depresses him. Then he feels superior over Ackley for being an outcast.
I hadn't even realized the importance of the setting is until actually analyzing it and finding out that It's crucial to know where the setting takes place because of how things are ran there. It's all about the types of people, their customs, what's considered "normal." In Manhattan, everything is amplified which we already know that Holden's character is already even more lonely in such a big city. However, if this were to take place in a small town, isolation and alienation wouldn't be as big of a problem because Holden can feel connected to others who feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the question about Holden and Ackley, ironically, they share some similarities between eachother. When Holden and Ackley are in the room together, Holden makes fun of Ackley and perceives him as a total outcast. This shows that Holden is judgemental and only sees peoples' flaws. This is ironic because Holden is almost exactly like Ackley, but he is in denial of the fact that he's afraid to be judged so he isolates himself from everyone else. Holden complains, for example, that Ackley "hated everybody's guts," which is ironic because it seems as if Holden holds a disliking to everyone else because of the way he judges them.
-Audrey Dizon
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ReplyDeleteManhattan is a crucial setting to the story because, as my peers have stated, it is essentially a playground for Holden. He can express his overwhelming emotions here, as well as have freedom from the daunting realm of adulthood. His rebellious attitude pairs well with the smoke filled air of New York, and the disparity between business-like upper New York and carefree Manhattan allows him to flex his mischievous side. In addition, Manhattan has been quite famous in America over the course of its history. This allows Salinger to easily convey Holden's character traits as he visits familiar sites and displays rebellion, innocence, and passion throughout the scenes of New York.
ReplyDeleteNew York City is the perfect setting for this novel because it is a very well know city that many readers can visualize even if they have not been there. It is also the perfect place for Holden to be because as he stated throughout the novel, he hates many people because they are phonies. And New York City is filled with a lot a people that he could consider phonies which will help us realize what type of person Holden is. In the part of the novel where Holden begins to criticize Ackley one can begin to notice that they are both very similar. This includes the fact that they both hate people and would prefer to stay in their room instead of going to the football game like everybody else. Throughout the story I believed that Ackley and Holden were going to become friends because they are both surprisingly similar including that they both can be rude/have no manners.
ReplyDelete-Dariana Nieves
Having the setting be in Manhattan is very important in creating the many encounters Holden has throughout the book. First, New York even outside of this book symbolizes opportunity and independence. There is a saying that goes if you can make it here (New York) you can make it anywhere. In many other books and movies people venture to New York looking to start a new life and pursue their dreams. New York is also referred to as the city that never sleeps and in some ways can be similar to Vegas. The nightlife enables Holden to wander through the city alone and does not raise attention to him as it would in a smaller town. Also, if the setting was in a place such as San Diego everything would be very spread out and things would be closed, not allowing his nighttime adventures to take place.
ReplyDeleteIt is very ironic as Holden tries to describe Ackley as a unhygienic nerd, and Holden seems to miss their similarities. Both these characters are outcasts and belong to no group or cliche at Pencey because of their dislike for other students. Also, Holden describes himself as tall and skinny even scrawny, so both characters have these physical flaws. This scene makes the statement that the two can't be friends because both are judgmental. The scene is similar to old Spencer's scene because Holden does not show respect in his thoughts of each character based on their appearances.
After Mr. Rodriguez pointed out the setting and how it could be crucial I didn't fully realize that the place could impact the story. I agree that Manhattan is a great setting and how there could be many things to do in the city like throw snowballs, ice skate, meet people, and how you could stay up all night doing what you want which would be perfect for a teen such as Holden. If the setting were moved to a place like San Diego their would be little change besides the drop in temperature, there wouldn't be as much people but a city is usually awake at night. However if the setting were placed in the midwest there wouldn't be much to do during the late nights, which I feel is a crucial part to Holden since he is a rebellious teen an many teens often hang out at night time.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Holden making fun of Ackley all the time I feel it is a bit humorous to see these two fight because it's already Holden's Junior year and Ackley's senior year and they must've been dormies, I used dormies instead of roommates because they stradlater was really his roommate, for more than at least a year because he knows so much about Ackley yet they still manage to disagree often. I think Holden makes fun of Ackley because of his imperfections and how Holden can be observant and find flaws annoying to him like how Old Spencer kept repeating himself and how Ackley has a face full of pimples.
New York City as the setting for this novel is important considering it is a large and busy city leaving Holden to the choice of isolation or socialization. In his case, he constantly chooses to be isolated from everyone else testing his capabilities to be on his own for adulthood. Changing the location would affect the actions Holden would usually do such as his late night adventures out in the city. Small towns will only restrict him from his ventures especially because of his age. Manhattan allows him to isolate himself and his isolation grows even more through his ventures. Holden constantly makes fun of his friend Ackley however, ironically he appears to be just like him. They're both isolating themselves from crowds, personality wise they are not the nicest, and their intelligence are underestimated. Holden seems to always make fun of Ackley lift his self esteem higher and help him feel better about himself. Mr. Spencer tried to reach out to him and help him figure where he wants his life to go but Holden was doing that on his own being by being judgemental with others and wandering around the city.
ReplyDeleteI have finished the book, Catcher in the Rye, and in my opinion, New York City is the perfect setting for the characters that are presented in the book. The setting of Manhattan is crucial to the story because the society living in the city within the time period of the 1950’s create an atmosphere of independence, the American Dream, and many more. There are many places in New York City that is a part of, as my peers stated above, a playground such as the museum he visits at the end of the book, Penn station, Central Park, big hotels including the one with the Lavender room, and many more that all of New Yorkers and tourists could visit. Holden has visited all these places because growing up in New York City made him have more freedom to roam around. Also some parts of it is a carefree zone such as the when he started drinking scotch at the nightclub.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Holden argues with Ackley and begins to make fun of him because of how much Holden hates phonies and he believes that Ackley is a phony. Also it shows how Holden is immature, which relates to post #4 with how to does not want to grow up and begins to say childish things to Ackley
-Mikayla Abille
The fact that the setting of The Catcher in the Rye is Manhattan, New York is crucial to understanding Holden's perspective. Living in a large city, he was bound to meet all types of people, and living in the fast, busy city it is understandable that it all interactions seem phony to him. He is unable to stand out as an individual in the midst of the large population, so he appears to set himself apart by scrutinizing and criticizing almost every individual. Had the setting been a smaller town, perhaps his behavior and misconduct would not have gone unnoticed, and greater intervention would have taken place.
ReplyDeleteThis might also be the reason why Holden degrades those around him. From moving around so often, the relations he himself builds are not sincere so he makes out all relations to be as phony as his. For example, when Mr. Spencer takes interest in his life and scolds him for edification, Holden ignores what he has to say. It is ironic because he opts for having phony relationships with those around him and then judges others for having them as well. Because of this apathy and indifference, when Ackley shows interest in hanging out with Holden, Holden chooses to criticize and distance himself from Ackley.
New York seems to be the perfect setting because, as Alecs pointed out, it is a very active city that holds a great amount of people. That being said, it seems very easy for someone like Holden to find an activity to do or meet other people in such place. While he does seem isolated from everyone else, Holden does try to make contact over the payphone with people he wishes to talk. He does this as he wanders on the streets of New York in the middle of the night after leaving Pencey. After not being able to meet up with anyone, he entered a taxi and decided to go for a drink. Being New York, the setting gives the impression that people are active during the night, which thereby helps Holden meet up with three girls and although not amused, he still dances with each one of them. This kind of busy lifestyle is what is expected in such city. As far as Ackley goes, he does seem to resemble Holden in some ways. We as readers get first-hand insight on what Holden is thinking, and we can see that in many cases he offers his honest, blunt opinions on people or their actions. Ackley is just like that in his own way. Holden describes him as someone who doesn’t necessarily have a “filter”. This means he is always judging others as well. This can be seen by Ackley asking too many questions about a specific thing at times. They both actually resemble each other in that aspect.
ReplyDeleteThe story of Holden journeying though Manhattan, New York is similar to the stories and movies that use this borough in that they involve constant movement and change of pace throughout the days. This unique setting impacts what goes on in the story by establishing the tone of the novel and how busy everything is for Holden. Manhattan with its tall buildings, elaborate infrastructure, and busy roads captures the big presence of New York during this novel. If the setting was a place like San Diego or some midwestern town, the mood throughout the story would be a bit more mellow and relaxed like the sunny Californian cities. Cities like San Diego are known for being more relaxed and less busy than cities like Manhattan. Setting the novel in this kind of city would make less sense in connecting with Holden's mixed up mindset that is going through the constant motion of Manhattan life. In connection to Holden, the setting sets the pace of his thinking and his analyzing of the things happening around and within him. He sets himself up in this busy setting to thoroughly convey what he is thinking and why he is doing anything. In the scene where Holden is mocking Ackley, what Holden is commenting about his fellow student shows a slight bit of an immaturity and unkind personality in Holden. While Ackley tries to make conversation with Holden, he is put down by Holden's hints for him to stop talking as he reads the same sentence over and over. Holden simply wants to ignore Ackley and to sit calmly in his room with no one bothering him. I believe it is the same with Holden's history teacher who wants to advise Holden about his grades but is pushed off by Holden's negative response to the advice. And while Holden does take Ackley's company and Spenser's mentoring into recognition, he does not fully internalize them into his mind. Holden continues to be an ongoing challenge of a character to understand.
ReplyDelete-Leiana Lepule
Manhattan, alike most major cities is quite exquisite and booming with culture. I do not have any personal experience from being there myself but after browsing through some pictures, it is evident that it has a life of its own. I admire the towering buildings and timeless history and it is definitely clear why it is referred to as the "concrete jungle." A city like Manhattan is very culturally diverse due to the overflow of immigrants that arrived to Ellis Island in the late 1800's which means that Holden is most likely to encounter a wide variety of people. Major cities are always crowded and can add to the excitement and rebellious nature among teens living there for it could spark riots, such as the rock and roll era in the 50's where the music was used to support their disobedience. Cities in the Midwest would not hold up to this standard for they are more reserved and pride themselves of being farming towns and work diligently to maintain their land.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the conversation between Holden and Ackley,it is ironic that Holden keeps finding faults in Ackley and does not realize that he himself is no different from him. I found it amusing that as much as they may not get along, they both have similar motives such as skipping out on the football game to be alone in his room away from "phonies." I hope that Holden does not take Ackley for granted because they seem to be the only characters that see eye to eye.
-Camille Taylor
What’s ironic about this scene is that fact that Holden himself isn’t the boastful bigshot he claimed to be either. It would be the equivalent of a “lower-classed individual” harassing someone of equal caliber. Not only this, but also Caulfield thinks he is above Ackley. Caulfield goes on and on saying how disgusting of a person Ackley is and how nobody else really likes him either. Essentially, he is the kind of person that nobody would ever want to be around for a prolonged amount of time. He especially annoys the hell out of Caulfield when he “examines” that picture on his chiffonnier that he has examined before at least five thousand times before and purposefully places in the wrong place. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Backtracking to the scene with Caulfield’s former history teacher, Mr. Spencer, whom he calls Spencer or Old Spencer he seems to think of him as a friend and sometimes even lower than that. Holden says he liked the lessons that his teacher would give him although he could never learn anything in history class. Throughout the rest of that scene, Caulfield begins to become annoyed with Mr. Spencer’s advice and eventually leaves because he is fed up with having to deal with whatever Spencer has to offer. I think Mr. Spencer and Ackley have a similar mindset, that is they both can’t take a hint when needed, at least in the presence of Caulfield which results, in both cases, getting fed up with their behavior and mannerisms. I also think that both Spencer and Ackley have some value to them that is unrecognized by Caulfield at the moment. Spencer has the wisdom that comes with being elderly and Ackley has the innocence that strikes Caulfield as narrow-minded. Eventually, Caulfield comes to realize that his innocence is a good thing because it’s what grounds him to reality while Caulfield remains in the purgatory-like state between childhood and adulthood.
ReplyDelete-Antonio Robledo
Manhattan is a great setting for this book because the city is overwhelming and large, in connects to Holden by being almost like a boy lost in the big city, a boy trying to figure out what to do with his life while growing to be an adult in a big city where you may even get more confused. Manhattan is a big city which may get you overwhelmed. The novel would be different if it was set in a place like San Diego because San Diego is seen as a important city in the world but it is located near beaches. beaches give the sense of relaxation and stress free and problem free where Manhattan seems a little more chaotic. The Midwest would not be a good setting either because small towns don't give too much attention or problems. What I have noticed throughout the book is that Holden describes everyone is such a negative way, he only speaks what is bad about them rather than good. What I think is funny is that Holden makes fun of Ackley about something he does himself. Even though Holden keeps on repeating that Ackely and him aren't friend I feel that they are without him even knowing because of Ackley coming into his room so comfortably. What I think is similar between Holden's conversation with Ackely and his conversation with Spencer is that no matter how good friends they were whether Holden noticed or not is that he did not admire their physical appearance. Did anyone notice anything else about this scene?
ReplyDelete-Briana Nieves
As a former resident of New York, I can state with confidence that the bustling city life is a stark contrast to the more relaxed atmosphere of sub-urban areas such as San Diego. While life in San Diego is not boring in the slightest, New York has a much more active and rushed life style. In addition to this, the enormous assortment of people residing within the city provides for numerous opportunities to encounter new people and new experiences. This is especially apparent in this novel as it was written in the 20th century, a time where New York was even more significant as a city than in the present day. New York is an ideal location to host the proceedings of this novels events as the author will have the freedom to include spectacular and irregular characters who would otherwise be improbable find. Similarly, the narrator would be unable to have the freedom to do as he wishes. While his actions are lost to the self-interested crowd of New York, in small communities, all of his decisions would hold more weight to those around him. The individualistic attitude and diversity of the people in New York is what makes the events in the novel feasible.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to to the question about Ackley, Holden reveals that he is of the same cloth as Ackley. Not only is he judgmental and mocking, Holden criticizes Ackley for being a phony, the type of people he hates most. However, Holden himself, while acting somewhat impolite, does not outright avoid Ackley nor does he verbally dismiss him. This hypocrisy reveals that Holden is similar to those he abhors. While the author was attempting to ridicule Ackley, he also ends up crediting himself simultaneously. This is also apparent when Holden puts on a more polite persona for his aging history teacher, even though his internal thoughts reveal otherwise. Overall, this reveals how Holden contradicts his own beliefs at times.
-Bisheshata Basnet
The setting of Manhattan is essential to the story of The Catcher in the Rye because it is part of the social commentary.
ReplyDeleteOne of the biggest themes of the book is man vs. society. We see Holden, who is a normal, everyday U.S. citizen (or so he thinks he is), trying to find happiness in a huge city, New York. New York is supposed to not only be America, but also is supposed to embody everything that is wrong with America. Mainly what we see through Holden’s eyes is phonies. We see that everything is negative, that hardly anything in the world is “good”. Holden doesn’t care about money, he sold his $90 typewriter for $20. He blows all of his money in 2 nights. Clearly, material things have no control over Holden. Through this book we also see that in America, it is every man for himself. Holden trudges through the large span of New York City on his own, never able to spend time with someone for more than an hour. The only place where he can see people he knows for a long period of time is at home, and even then that is the one place that he is avoiding. Through Holden’s eyes we see the truth behind the ideal lifestyle portrayed by all of the “Phonies” through how Holden looks at certain individuals with distaste. The only real person, he seems to say, is his family. Again, those are the people he does not want to see. Holden also talks about running away to live in the woods on the west coast, as a mute who has to talk to no one. What this shows me is that Holden believes that the problems in American society are unsolvable.
Xavier Sanchez
I agree with my peer Jaevante Valenciano because the setting of Manhattan is crucial to the theme of the novel. Manhattan is a large city with thousands of people and things to do. However, Holden alienates himself from the bustling city and finds himself in a void of loneliness. Holdens inability to interact with society causes him to fall into a deep depression. Additionally, New York has a tradition of clubs, drinking, smoking, and sex. It is notable how Holden is influenced by all of these. He seems to be going out for a drink whenever there is a chance and sparking a cigarrette at every moment. He even requested a prostitute at the Edmont Hotel which shows how the setting of Manhattan influences Holden.
ReplyDeleteHolden feels the need to make fun of Ackley in order to make himself feel better. His self-esteem is at his all-time low so he degrades Ackley to boost it. Holden feels as if the more he puts down Ackley the more he will feel like he is better than him. Holden mentions multiple times how Ackley has a horrible personality, which is quite Ironic due to the fact that there are many moments where Holden's own poor personality was notable.
-Joseph Liang
Manhattan is the most densely populated of New York boroughs and is among the world’s major commercial, financial and cultural centers. Manhattan is probably the most crucial setting because it is most effective when it comes to educating Holden in the hectic life of an adult. Being a place that is over populated and always on the move provides a more difficult atmosphere to combine himself with versus a place like San Diego where it is more calm and friendly. This setting is not exactly where a beginning adolescent would like to be let out to learn the doings of adulthood. For this reason, Manhattan serves as an overwhelming and scary place to wonder through alone.
ReplyDeleteAs multiple of my peers have pointed out the motive for Holden picking on Ackley is because he dislikes how similar they are. Holden sees himself through Ackley’s actions and character, which Holden finds annoying and disturbing. In response Holden makes fun of Ackley to provoke a change that Holden himself can not make. For example when Mal Brossard and Holden were going out and invited Ackley, Ackley accepted even though he disliked “that bastard.”Both Ackley and holden dislike almost everyone although they refer to them differently–Holden calls them “phonies and morons” while Ackley calls them “sonuvabitches and bastards.” This relates to the previous scene between Holden and Mr. Spencer because again they share a mutual persona. Despite the different looks all three of these characters are isolated from social contact. They all find themselves alone doing nothing on the night where everyone else is doing the complete opposite.
-Gisselle Gonzalez
Manhattan is a proper setting for this book, and rightly so. You see, people come to a place like San Diego to retire, and to take a vacation. Now, Holden is trying to get away, but the closest place to him is his city, Manhattan. I grew up in LA, and although it's not nearly as busy as Manhattan, I understand what a city truly means. It means you got your motels full of creeps you can see. It means you can get a drink at a bar if you play it off right. You can really become a whole different person. Some of my peers mentioned that Manhattan is like Holden's personality, cold and unstable, and I agree. There's so much to learn about a city, just like trying to get to know a person, which is essentially what we are trying to do throughout the book: understand Holden.
ReplyDeleteHere's the ironic thing about Holden talking about Ackley: he's no better himself. Holden teases Ackley, calling him a phony and a nobody. But guess who's not at the game too, and who finds comfort in isolation? Exactly. Holden holds himself to a higher standard than a lot of people, and he believes he's better than everyone because of it. But the truth is, he's not. He's just another misfit like the rest of us, including Ackley, and is in a personality purgatory if you will, about accepting it.
With the story taking place in Manhattan during the winter we get a fell of gloomy landscape with tall buildings cloudy skies and snow covered streets. It also serves as an optimal location for Holden to demonstrate his rebellious personality. He is constantly shown smoking and and drinking alcohol and even gets a prostitute. With Manhattan being a bustling city it also introduced a variety of people that Holden encountered. For example the two nuns he met at the dinner or the three women he met at the Lavender room that came from Seattle to look for celebrities.
ReplyDelete-David Valentin
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ReplyDeleteManhattan, a bustling city with millions of people on it, is the a good choice for the setting of this book. Holden a boy is lost in his education must navigate this busy city. This is a perfect setting because like most teens are lost and are finding their true selves. Manhattan proves to have many obstacles for Holden, which he must find is way. This hectic setting helps display the thoughts and feeling of Holden as he encounters many different people and challenges. He feels depressed through his travels around the city because he feels like nothing is real as if everything was fake or doesn't give him purpose.
ReplyDelete-Kyle Elecanal
The setting of this novel juxtaposes isolation and inclusion into society in the novel. In NYC, Holden attempts to live alone amongst millions of other individuals, making his struggles seem all the more severe. Perhaps the diversity of NYC elicited hope in Holden, that perhaps his struggles would be understood by at least one of the millions of individuals that reside in that city. Considering the fact that San Diego is a city as well, I feel as though it wouldn't affect the novel. If the novel's setting was in a small town in the midwest, Holden would likely be less hopeful and feel more inclined to be isolate himself further.
ReplyDelete3) Salinger strategically made New York City his setting in order to allow Holden to experience alienation. Manhattan, one of the most hectic cities in NYC precluded Holden from relating to people he interacts with, thus making him “alone” in the busiest city in the world. However NYC also helped Holden recognize that the only answer to solve his feeling of isolation is to connect with others, and Manhattan provides a constant flow of people he can attempt to connect with. Holden’s constant attempts to connect with people are evident throughout the novel. For example upon Holden’s arrival in NYC, he immediately goes into a phone booth to desperately talk to someone and establish some sort of contact, then calls for a cab, he asks the cab driver if he would like to join him for a drink, however after being rejected by the driver, he then makes a few phone calls and gets a hold of Sally Hayes, which he then asked her on a date (Ch.13), then Holden proceeds to call and invite Carl Luce out for a drink (ch.18). All these examples highlights the fact that Holden is attempting to mask his loneliness by interactions with people in Manhattan. Moreover the setting of NYC helps Holden express his character and conflictions. Holden is conflicted by his fear of change. Holden professed his fear of change through places located in Manhattan; The Natural Arts Museum. While at the museum Holden says “The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody'd move… Nobody'd be different…” (ch.16). Holden feels fond of the museum because he likes the idea of frozen, unchanging world. A world were unpredictability is unknown. Seasonal changes can alter the psyche of an individual, hence during the winter people are prone to suffer from the “winter blues” and can send people into a depressive, and desolate state. NYC’s brutal winter, enables Holden to feel depressed and gloomy. If this story’s setting took place in a sunny place like San Diego, the chances of Holden feeling depresses would decrease, since the environment that surrounds an individual heavily influences their behavior. In other words, Holden’s depression would be less severe if he was exposed to weather that usually brings a sense of happiness.
ReplyDeleteAfter re reading page 19, I was able to identify the irony in this scene. This scene depicts both Holden and Ackley in their dorms during the football game while the rest of the school’s students are watching the football game. Holden addressed Ackley’s reason for him staying in that night, he said Ackley hated the students at pence prep and was annoyed by them. Like Ackley, Holden also voices his dislike towards his fellow peers because they were “phony”. The irony in this scene is that both of them share a hatred toward their peers, despite Holden’s claim of not being compatible to anyone at pence prep. Furthermore I can agree with my peers on the fact that Holden mocks Ackley by calling him a “nerd” because he wants to mask his own insecurities by belittling and ridiculing Ackley.
New York City is a vast and diverse city. They beauty of NYC, in Holden's perspective is seen as a trodden society full of phonies and idiots. The book is set there because of how wide New York is, for even though there is beauty in the city behind it is darkness and twisted things. -Sierra Masi
ReplyDeleteNew York City is a vast and diverse city. They beauty of NYC, in Holden's perspective is seen as a trodden society full of phonies and idiots. The book is set there because of how wide New York is, for even though there is beauty in the city behind it is darkness and twisted things. -Sierra Masi
ReplyDeleteWell my take on having New York City as the setting heavily impacts the story in what kind of activities the characters can partake in. For example there aren't subway systems to ice skating rinks in every city. It also sets how generally most characters will act generally for there is a somewhat set stereotype for certain groups of people for example new yorkers seem to be somewhat more grumpy, angry, and or irratated than most. Continuing on, after analyzing Holden's actions so far in the novel he seems to enjoy analyzing things and pointing out the seeemingly ironic/pointless faults in them, along with that he seems to like to take part in the "chinks in the armor" of some of these things for example he likes to annoy Ackley. However there is some irony in this situation for he acts the same way towards Stradlater. Holden does things that are somewhat childish and annoying towards Stradlater which then lead to Stradlater messing woith Holden therefore reflecting the conflict with Holden and Ackley. Therefore if you will Holden is Stradlater's Ackley.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason Manhattan is so crucial to the plot is due to the fact that hardly anyone stays there. In the Big Apple everything is fast pace, a blur, and so Holden is alone in a restless city. An example of this is when Holden meets the nuns, he enjoys their company and is saddened when they leave. If the setting took place in a smaller town then Holden may have been able to meet and make friends with someone, and not been so isolated.
ReplyDeleteTo answer one of Anna Leon's questions about Holden's issues towards relationships with others, I believe he is either too occupied with his own thoughts and accusations to really notice or pay attention to others completely. The argument with Ackley boy is just one example of the many ways Holden projects himself onto others, and how it makes him want to isolate himself further.
-Isabella Wolf
I think that having Manhattan, New York as the setting is brilliant because it creates the tone of the novel. When you think of New York, you can visualize an overcrowded city with huge buildings everywhere. Since Holden is a young man in a big city, it his hard for him to find himself. As I continue to read the book, Holden seems to be lonely and depressed. I found this to be ironic since the city is filled with different people and always crowed. However, I agree with my peers that had mentioned that this novel would not keep its unique quality if it were to have its setting in a different city like San Diego. The two cities are extremely different, not only for their crowds of people, but mostly for their overall atmospheres. It would be different in San Diego because many young teenagers could relate to Holden and the feeling of isolation that we continue to see throughout the novel would be difficult to find. The perspectives on the main character would have a major turn.
ReplyDeleteAs of Holdens interaction with Ackley, I believe that he shows this type of behavior simply to make himself seem better than him. However, as i was reading some of my peers comments, I came across Yaressy's statement. She states that Holden makes fun of Ackley because he is simply a mirror image of himself. I can agree with my peer because we can see that throughout the book he always seemed to criticized people but doesnt know that he is also similar to them. Many of the scenes between the two characters shows how quick Holden is to judge but it is ironic since they share some similarites.
The irony in Holden's statements about Ackley is that he is making fun of Ackley for being antisocial and alone, while both of them are hiding from their peers in their rooms and are choosing not to participate in the game. Holden is very critical of others, but cannot acknowledge his on flaws. This may be a sign that Holden refuses to acknowledge how flawed he can be, or that he simply cannot see the similarities between himself and Ackley. I believe that this is a form of coping for Holden, as he criticizes those who are like him.
ReplyDelete